Topics

SDRC Development for RSPDuo - Diversity

Charles Muller
 

Simon,

When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios, please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for small corrections.

I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the SDRPlay APIs.

Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for such a wide range of radios.

Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM

Simon Brown
 

Charles,

 

Actually it’s quite a lot of work but is something I want to do as there will be a SDR with 4 phase-coherent receivers in 2020 / 2021 with any luck. That really would be interesting.

 

Getting on quite well with the implementation of the v3 SDRplay library.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Muller
Sent: 30 November 2019 05:24
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] SDRC Development for RSPDuo - Diversity

 

Simon,

When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios, please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for small corrections.

I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the SDRPlay APIs.

Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for such a wide range of radios.

Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM

Ken Alexander
 

Hi Simon,

To support what Charles is saying, separate phase and gain controls would be a Godsend.  SDRPlay's circular control is good for gross adjustments but after that it becomes very difficult to adjust phase without messing up the gain, and vice versa.

When you get to it...

Ken Alexander
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:23 Charles Muller <mrcharlesmuller@...> wrote:
Simon,

When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios, please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for small corrections.

I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the SDRPlay APIs.

Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for such a wide range of radios.

Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM

jdow
 

Hm, THAT would enable a very effective version of automatic steerable null antenna systems for VHF for military jeep radios. Erm, I bet they already have this and the gear has not hit the surplus market yet.

{^_^}

On 20191129 23:45:27, Simon Brown wrote:
Charles,
Actually it’s quite a lot of work but is something I want to do as there will be a SDR with 4 phase-coherent receivers in 2020 / 2021 with any luck. That really would be interesting.
Getting on quite well with the implementation of the v3 SDRplay library.
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
*From:*main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Charles Muller
*Sent:* 30 November 2019 05:24
*To:* main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
*Subject:* [SDR-Radio] SDRC Development for RSPDuo - Diversity
Simon,
When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios, please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for small corrections.
I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the SDRPlay APIs.
Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for such a wide range of radios.
Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM

jdow
 

If you want to apply it to the full spectrum width IQ stream it's awkward to do but applies very nicely as a set of multiplications by "constants" and additions. Applying it to VFOs is easier. You can insert phase directly and amplitude is a pair of multiplies. I don't know why SDRPlay would have trouble. I must be missing something.
{^_^}

On 20191130 00:10:43, Ken Alexander wrote:
Hi Simon,
To support what Charles is saying, separate phase and gain controls would be a Godsend.  SDRPlay's circular control is good for gross adjustments but after that it becomes very difficult to adjust phase without messing up the gain, and vice versa.
When you get to it...
Ken Alexander
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog: bueng-ken.com <http://bueng-ken.com>
On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 12:23 Charles Muller <mrcharlesmuller@... <mailto:mrcharlesmuller@...>> wrote:
Simon,
When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios,
please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for
the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a
slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for
small corrections.
I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the
SDRPlay APIs.
Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for
such a wide range of radios.
Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM

SDRplayTech
 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 09:21 AM, jdow wrote:
"I don't know why SDRPlay would have trouble"
What trouble would you be referring to?

jdow
 

ken Alexander was remarking about the interaction between phase and angle on one of the SDRPlay tools for diversity reception. I don't see why there needs to be that interaction. Now, on the rtlsdr tool I have for SDRC I do cheat by using the fact that cosine of a small angle is very close to one and sine of a small angle is very close to the radian angle. I mix a touch of Q in with I to get fine tuned phase balance. But all I do is move a couple degrees max. The amplitude error I get is small enough to be ignored. There is an amplitude tweak anyway. The interaction is one way, very small, and quite tolerable. For a full 360 degrees control I'd never cheat like that. In that case I look on phase shifting and amplitude tweaking as a mixing process with a zero frequency VFO that has a controllable amplitude. I am guessing the problem Ken suggested exists is in the GUI control itself. A circular "touchpad" sort of control would be great for gross tuning. I'd have two sliders for fine tuning, one phase and the other amplitude. The touchpad would be a PITA to use for precision adjustments.

{^_^}

On 20191130 01:28:57, SDRplayTech wrote:
On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 09:21 AM, jdow wrote:
"I don't know why SDRPlay would have trouble"
What trouble would you be referring to?

SDRplayTech
 

I think that perhaps you misunderstood. The manual diversity control in SDRuno is a vector based control where the user has a ability to simultaneously adjust the amplitude and phase in a 2 dimensional plane. Amplitude and phase are not intrinsically linked. They are in fact completely separate. For the future we plan to add amplitude and phase lock features to enable the user to more easily adjust one without affecting the other.

jdow
 

So his issue with interaction may be either his misunderstanding what is happening or the GUI being a little difficult to get straight in the head. That makes more sense than an actual interaction. A good GUI for this setting is not easy to develop. You might look at the arrow and shift or control arrow keys for making fine adjustments.

{^_^}

On 20191130 13:35:59, SDRplayTech wrote:
I think that perhaps you misunderstood. The manual diversity control in SDRuno is a vector based control where the user has a ability to simultaneously adjust the amplitude and phase in a 2 dimensional plane. Amplitude and phase are not intrinsically linked. They are in fact completely separate. For the future we plan to add amplitude and phase lock features to enable the user to more easily adjust one without affecting the other.

Ken Alexander
 

I understand the GUI controls just fine.  As was said, it's a touchpad type of control.  You move the cursor around the touchpad in a circular fashion to adjust phase and in/out from the center to adjust amplitude.  It's impossible to adjust one setting without disturbing the other.

Separate controls or a lock (hold Shift to lock phase, hold Ctrl to lock amplitude ...or whatever) would be much better.

Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 11:36 jdow <jdow@...> wrote:
So his issue with interaction may be either his misunderstanding what is
happening or the GUI being a little difficult to get straight in the head. That
makes more sense than an actual interaction. A good GUI for this setting is not
easy to develop. You might look at the arrow and shift or control arrow keys for
making fine adjustments.

{^_^}

On 20191130 13:35:59, SDRplayTech wrote:
> I think that perhaps you misunderstood. The manual diversity control in SDRuno
> is a vector based control where the user has a ability to simultaneously adjust
> the amplitude and phase in a 2 dimensional plane. Amplitude and phase are not
> intrinsically linked. They are in fact completely separate. For the future we
> plan to add amplitude and phase lock features to enable the user to more easily
> adjust one without affecting the other.
>



jdow
 

The existing should be nice if fine tuning controls are added. I like the idea. It just needs controlled fine tuning.

{^_^}

On 20191130 21:09:42, Ken Alexander wrote:
I understand the GUI controls just fine.  As was said, it's a touchpad type of control.  You move the cursor around the touchpad in a circular fashion to adjust phase and in/out from the center to adjust amplitude.  It's impossible to adjust one setting without disturbing the other.
Separate controls or a lock (hold Shift to lock phase, hold Ctrl to lock amplitude ...or whatever) would be much better.
Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog: bueng-ken.com <http://bueng-ken.com>
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019, 11:36 jdow <jdow@... <mailto:jdow@...>> wrote:
So his issue with interaction may be either his misunderstanding what is
happening or the GUI being a little difficult to get straight in the head. That
makes more sense than an actual interaction. A good GUI for this setting is not
easy to develop. You might look at the arrow and shift or control arrow keys
for
making fine adjustments.
{^_^}
On 20191130 13:35:59, SDRplayTech wrote:
> I think that perhaps you misunderstood. The manual diversity control in
SDRuno
> is a vector based control where the user has a ability to simultaneously
adjust
> the amplitude and phase in a 2 dimensional plane. Amplitude and phase are
not
> intrinsically linked. They are in fact completely separate. For the
future we
> plan to add amplitude and phase lock features to enable the user to more
easily
> adjust one without affecting the other.
>

kb3cs
 

there is one right now: KerberosSDR. it's rtl2832 based.

  - 1o (base 49) -


On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 11:45 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

Charles,

 

Actually it’s quite a lot of work but is something I want to do as there will be a SDR with 4 phase-coherent receivers in 2020 / 2021 with any luck. That really would be interesting.

 

Getting on quite well with the implementation of the v3 SDRplay library.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Muller
Sent: 30 November 2019 05:24
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] SDRC Development for RSPDuo - Diversity

 

Simon,

When you are considering further SDRC development for the SDRPlay radios, please would you consider incorporating diversity control functionality for the RSPDuo? I imagine a Gain/Phase panel for mouse control, but also a slider each for Gain and Phase as mousing around a panel can be tedious for small corrections.

I hope this is not too much to ask, especially as I know so little about the SDRPlay APIs.

Thank you for considering this, and for providing such good software for such a wide range of radios.

Regards,
Charles.
VK1CM