Topics

SDR-Server v3 stuttering on laptop PCs #airspyhfplus #sdrplay #sdrconsolev3

@PM_IU3JGG
 

Hi all from a new group member.

I have a remote SDR computer, a small Atom system with Win10 1809 and as radios, Airspy HF+ and Sdrplay RSP2. This computer is located at a friend's attic where the aerials are, and it is connected to my home LAN with a 802.11n WiFi bridge. Throughput is no problem, I can use up to 3 MHz BW on the RSP2. It runs SDR-Server V3.0.3. Slow Atom, but it works fine and draws very little power without fans.

At home I run SDR-Console V3.0.3 on various systems and connect to the attic SDR system via LAN and wireless bridge.

I am having serious audio stuttering issues, but ONLY on laptop computers. Tested on a Lenovo T470 (no Nvidia graphics) and on a brand new Dell XPS15 with a GTX1050 (CUDA enabled and used by Console), they both stutter heavily with every BW setting on both radios, on both wireless and wired network connection.

No problems whatsoever on every desktop computer where I tried installing SDR Console to sort this issue out (i7-7700K with GTX1050 and an old i3-3220 with a GT1030), they all work fine.

The remote SDR system runs also a SPY-Server on the HF+, connecting with SDR-Console to the SPY-Server works fine on all systems, both laptops and desktops, so it seems an issue with SDR-Console running a server connection on a laptop computer.

Attached a log from Console on the Lenovo laptop. I see that every stutter produces a line like this:

01:46:14.348: Radio V3Server> Flow control: sleep 5 ms (restart timing)

I tried all possible remedies I found here but none works. I thought the problem was the Lenovo laptop which has only Intel integrated graphics but it is not.

Pls help me sorting this out, 73 de Paolo IU3JGG from Italy

@PM_IU3JGG
 

EDIT forgot to upload logs! here's Lenovo T470 one.

Simon Brown
 

OK,

 

You’re using the HF+. The support library for the HF+ is possibly using too much CPU power, more than your atom can provide.

 

Look at the CPU load on the ATOM.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of paolomassalin@...
Sent: 08 November 2018 01:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] SDR-Server v3 stuttering on laptop PCs #sdrconsolev3 #airspyhfplus #sdrplay

 

Hi all from a new group member.

I have a remote SDR computer, a small Atom system with Win10 1809 and as radios, Airspy HF+ and Sdrplay RSP2. This computer is located at a friend's attic where the aerials are, and it is connected to my home LAN with a 802.11n WiFi bridge. Throughput is no problem, I can use up to 3 MHz BW on the RSP2. It runs SDR-Server V3.0.3. Slow Atom, but it works fine and draws very little power without fans.

At home I run SDR-Console V3.0.3 on various systems and connect to the attic SDR system via LAN and wireless bridge.

I am having serious audio stuttering issues, but ONLY on laptop computers. Tested on a Lenovo T470 (no Nvidia graphics) and on a brand new Dell XPS15 with a GTX1050 (CUDA enabled and used by Console), they both stutter heavily with every BW setting on both radios, on both wireless and wired network connection.

No problems whatsoever on every desktop computer where I tried installing SDR Console to sort this issue out (i7-7700K with GTX1050 and an old i3-3220 with a GT1030), they all work fine.

The remote SDR system runs also a SPY-Server on the HF+, connecting with SDR-Console to the SPY-Server works fine on all systems, both laptops and desktops, so it seems an issue with SDR-Console running a server connection on a laptop computer.

Attached a log from Console on the Lenovo laptop. I see that every stutter produces a line like this:

01:46:14.348: Radio V3Server> Flow control: sleep 5 ms (restart timing)

I tried all possible remedies I found here but none works. I thought the problem was the Lenovo laptop which has only Intel integrated graphics but it is not.

Pls help me sorting this out, 73 de Paolo IU3JGG from Italy

@PM_IU3JGG
 
Edited

Hi Simon

Stuttering happens only on LAPTOP PCs connected to SDR-Server, NO problem on DESKTOP PCs, so It is not a problem on the server PC which these clients connect to. Before putting this system in the remote station I thorougly checked CPU usage on it, both locally and remotely. Since it is an Atom family chip, processing power is low and managing LAN traffic alone takes up to 30% CPU usage. Running SDR Console locally in the attic I was able to view 8 MHz BW on the RSP2 before maxing out on CPU resources, HF+ on 768kHz takes up 60-70%.
Switching to SDR-Server and LAN operation, HF+768 streaming takes 50-60%, for the RSP2 I am limited by the wireless link throughput (70-80 Mbps) which allows a maximum of 3-4 MHz RSP2 bandwidth, and this takes up 50% server CPU resources, so there shouldn't be any problems server side.

Problems are client side or in V3 client-server interaction with client running on a laptop system, all desktop PCs on which I installed SDR Console to test connection to that server work fine, if it's a server-side processing power problem they should all stutter, shouldn't they?

All radios stutter on all BW settings. Stuttering was the same with the old server system, which was an i3-4130T without any performance power constraints.

Connecting SDRConsole to the Spyserver that runs on the same system works flawlessly (on the HF+ only, of course)

Attached log files from the DELL laptop (i5-7300H with GTX1050)

Kriss Kliegle
 

The laptops are using wifi? what happens when plugged into the LAN?

I found when there are two wifi links in the chain, i.e. the remote server netbook and the 'end user' laptop (both on wifi) I would get frequently get stuttering on all BW''s. Since I finally got around to pulling CAT6 through the conduit out to the repeater shed (formerly a 130' wifi link from barn), my stuttering audio/waterfall display have not come back. My wifi link also fluctuated from 1MBPS to 54MBPS, even with the antennas in full view of each other at 130' separation.

Last night at our club meeting, I was running an Atom Netbook as the 'end user' via the club's wifi and no stuttering. Although the netbook at times was struggling to keep up when changing frequencies or decoding BFM.

The AirspyHF+ is a demanding beast, it wouldn't run as a server properly on any of my various Atom netbooks, so now its on my wife's computer in kitchen (Intel I3 @ 2.5GHz CPU) and works fine for outside users.

YMMV

73 Kriss KA1GJU

@PM_IU3JGG
 
Edited

Hi Kriss
The radio server is in the attic of a HAM friend which has kindly allowed me to put aerials, radios and a little server PC there, since they're on the top of a 12-floor condo and receive wonderfully (VLF+HF+VHF). In the attic there's a little LAN network with a Gigabit switch, some webcams and the radio server, all connected with CAT5E UTP or CAT6 STP cable, all grounded. This building is 1 km away from my flat (5-floor condo), with both rooftops in line of sight of each other, so instead of using the VDSL connection of my friend's flat there, we decided to link the attic LAN to my home LAN network with a wireless 802.11n bridge that works in WDS mode, with two CPE devices, on 5-GHz band, so the attic behaves like an extension of my LAN.
The radio server is a small 1U rackmount system with a Mitac PD10AI-N3350 motherboard, based on a Celeron N3350 system on chip, radios and two SSDs, no moving parts, powered by a 24V/35W supply with 10W idle, 20W peak power. A 300W UPS guarantees surge protection and backup power for the whole network and peripherals there.
I already tried both wireless and wired on my Lenovo laptop at home, absolutely no difference. The Dell XPS15 has only wireless. It's not a laptop network connection issue.

Attached another log, of my desktop PC where everything plays fine on all radios connected to the Atom server, so it can handle these radios remotely.

Tatamare
 
Edited

Hello guys !
Two weeks ago olso have heavy audio shuttering, i dont now what it has the solution, but i know what i change -
The power option on property of wifi devices, also i put exclude the console and server service's on windos defender.
After thas all is going well.
Make a try,Paulo! 
Gl 
Marius,yo7fb, 73!

Kriss Kliegle
 

I seem to recall a post about windows power options and setting minimum CPU and maximum CPU percentages and another post on setting the power settings to max performance. Posts were about a month ago? Maybe under the +60 posts on stuttering??


Kriss KA1GJU

@PM_IU3JGG
 

Tried min and max CPU %, wireless adapter is set always to max performance, PCIE ASPM has no effect between off and max.
Changing power settings has no effect, as it should, since behavior is exactly the same on two totally different laptops:
Lenovo T470 with i7-7500U, no GPU, Intel 7265AC wireless and i219-V wired LAN (tried both wired and wireless)
Dell XPS15-9560 with i5-7300H, GTX1050, Killer 1535 wireless and no wired LAN

Please note that these power settings are more or less the same I always use on my desktop computers, and as I repeat all desktop systems where I tested SDRC work and play just fine as the log above demonstrates. I might give a try on my bro's systems, he has a Lenovo E550 laptop and a i7-4790S desktop, I bet I'll get the same results as mine... works on the desktop (has only integrated graphics) and stutters on the laptop.

My friend tried connecting over the Internet with his old Win7 Dell laptop and as expected, it stutters even on 192 kHz HF+. Our VDSL subscriptions are both 200/20M downlink/uplink bandwidth so it is not an internet connection problem.

A month ago I tried updating drivers for almost everything on my T470, LAN WLAN GFX but no luck.

If I remember correctly, the problem worsened badly after upgrading to Win10 1803 on the T470.

Let's see if Simon comes up with something. 73 de Paolo IU3JGG

Stu C
 

On 08/11/2018 18:26, @PM_IU3JGG wrote:
Tried min and max CPU %, wireless adapter is set always to max performance, PCIE ASPM has no effect between off and max.
Changing power settings has no effect, as it should, since behavior is exactly the same on two totally different laptops:
Lenovo T470 with i7-7500U, no GPU, Intel 7265AC wireless and i219-V wired LAN (tried both wired and wireless)
Dell XPS15-9560 with i5-7300H, GTX1050, Killer 1535 wireless and no wired LAN

Please note that these power settings are more or less the same I always use on my desktop computers, and as I repeat all desktop systems where I tested SDRC work and play just fine as the log above demonstrates. I might give a try on my bro's systems, he has a Lenovo E550 laptop and a i7-4790S desktop, I bet I'll get the same results as mine... works on the desktop (has only integrated graphics) and stutters on the laptop.

My friend tried connecting over the Internet with his old Win7 Dell laptop and as expected, it stutters even on 192 kHz HF+. Our VDSL subscriptions are both 200/20M downlink/uplink bandwidth so it is not an internet connection problem.

A month ago I tried updating drivers for almost everything on my T470, LAN WLAN GFX but no luck.

If I remember correctly, the problem worsened badly after upgrading to Win10 1803 on the T470.

Let's see if Simon comes up with something. 73 de Paolo IU3JGG

@PM_IU3JGG
 

I tried on the Lenovo T470 on which I can disable enhancements and Dolby Audio, nothing changes as expected.

Stu C
 

From related wed searches (Tomshardware) mainly people saying what worked for them, I see ensuring prefetch is disabled if using SSD, disabling sound on HDMI and Bluetooth devices.
Obviously it pays to update the drivers on everything to the latest but at least one early comment said they only got beyond it when using a driver direct from the manufacturer rather than MS or the Laptop manufacturer.
MS and "Manufacturer approved" drivers are often not the latest.

From other comments on here saying it changed around Win 10 Update time it would point to drivers and how they cooperate with other sound devices (that may not be immediately obvious).
One thread went into disabling all start up services and if it affected the stutter gradually re-enabling to see what is the likely culprit.

The prefetch one on SSD I'd never have considered.
With Samsung the magician software will allow you to optimise the disk for various uses (from memory) I can't help feeling as this is on laptops it is in some way power related (As in the driver may spot mobile chip and act differently).

I must try and provoke it then see if I can find anything to change the effect.

On 09/11/2018 18:04, @PM_IU3JGG wrote:
I tried on the Lenovo T470 on which I can disable enhancements and Dolby Audio, nothing changes as expected.

@PM_IU3JGG
 

This Dell laptop is intermediate config and doesn't require many drivers. This morning I updated Killer Wifi+BT since MS provided ones were 2017, Realtek card reader, installed Intel MEI, I already had updated Intel and Nvidia GPU driver to latest ones. Only one I didn't update is the audio card driver, since it integrates MaxxAudioPro as equalizer and I'm afraid I'll lose it if I put the original Realtek package. Anyway, same problems happened on the Lenovo where I had upgraded audio drivers two times already.
Look forward to try on my brother's systems tomorrow.
Meanwhile I found out that letting SDRC run for a while results in some seconds every now and then of normal operation between stuttering, and that these seconds seem to increase if SDRC window loses focus to another program on top of it.
Shouldn't be a client related issue, since I get it on two different laptops, tomorrow maybe on a third different one.
Will launch a remote session to double check V3 server config on the attic PC.

Stu C
 

Did you try changing the audio format from that MS blog link?
I don't have any real clue but does seem worth trying more of the steps suggested by the OS vendor (?).

While fault finding logically not replacing the audio driver makes anything after that a bit woolly.
In fact loosing equalizer sounds like a good thing when faced with this sort of issue.

"Shouldn't be a client related issue" unless it is specific to laptops, try a desktop as part of testing?.


*Trying Different Audio Formats*

/Windows audio devices support a wide range of audio formats. Sometimes, incompatibilities with drivers or the audio software in Windows affect audio playback or recording. In this section, we rule out or confirm audio format issues as the source of your issue./

On 10/11/2018 00:05, @PM_IU3JGG wrote:
This Dell laptop is intermediate config and doesn't require many drivers. This morning I updated Killer Wifi+BT since MS provided ones were 2017, Realtek card reader, installed Intel MEI, I already had updated Intel and Nvidia GPU driver to latest ones. Only one I didn't update is the audio card driver, since it integrates MaxxAudioPro as equalizer and I'm afraid I'll lose it if I put the original Realtek package. Anyway, same problems happened on the Lenovo where I had upgraded audio drivers two times already.
Look forward to try on my brother's systems tomorrow.
Meanwhile I found out that letting SDRC run for a while results in some seconds every now and then of normal operation between stuttering, and that these seconds seem to increase if SDRC window loses focus to another program on top of it.
Shouldn't be a client related issue, since I get it on two different laptops, tomorrow maybe on a third different one.
Will launch a remote session to double check V3 server config on the attic PC.

@PM_IU3JGG
 

StuC did you read what I posted before here? I'm afraid no.

SDR SERVER SYSTEM:
Mitac PD10AI-N3350, Intel Celeron N3350 SoC, 8GB RAM, 2x Intel i211AT wired interfaces, Win10LTSC-1809

CURRENT SYSTEMS TESTED:
LAPTOP Lenovo T470, i7-7500U, 8GB RAM, Intel HD620, Intel 7265AC, Intel i219-V: stutters on AC wireless and wired
LAPTOP Lenovo T440p, i5-4300M, 8GB RAM, Intel HD4600, Intel 7260N, Intel i217-V: stutters on N wireless and wired
LAPTOP Lenovo E550, i5-5200U, 16GB RAM, Intel HD5500, Intel 7260AC, Intel i218-V: stutters on AC wireless and wired
LAPTOP Dell XPS15-9560, i5-7300HQ, 8GB RAM, Nvidia GTX1050, Killer 1535AC: stutters on AC wireless (no wired ethernet)
DESKTOP Asrock Z270 Supercarrier, i7-7700K, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GTX1050, Intel i211AT, Intel i217-V, Aquantia AQC108: works perfectly on all wired network interfaces
DESKTOP Gigabyte B75M-D3H, i3-3220, 4GB RAM, Nvidia GT1030, Realtek 8111F: works perfectly on wired

I still have to try on my brother's desktop, will do ASAP.

All these client systems have different hardware and different drivers for almost everything, OS is Win10-1803 for all.

Connecting SDR-Console to the SPYSERVER, which runs alongside SDR-Server on the remote system, works PERFECTLY on ALL CLIENTS, on the HF+ only of course.
Running SDR-Console locally, that means on the attic system to which the radios are USB-connected, works PERFECTLY if you don't pretend too much from a dual-core netbook-derived ATOM chip, I was able to get 6-7 MHz BW on the RSP2, no problem on HF+.

It seems like a problem of SDR-Console when it runs on a LAPTOP PC connected to a remote SDR-Server. Strange enough...

@PM_IU3JGG
 

UPDATE

DESKTOP Asus CS-B, i7-4790S, 16GB RAM, HD4600, Intel i217-LM: works perfectly on wired network

FRIEND LAPTOP old Dell Core 2 Duo mobile workstation with Quadro CUDA and Win7, over the internet: stutters even on 192k HF+. Some months ago we tried with SPYSERVER+SDRCv3beta, and it worked fine over 4G-LTE tethering with CUDA (on a 10-year old workstation!).

There's still something to try, one of my friends' desktop systems (over internet) but I bet it will work perfectly as mine.

It seems like that for now I have to forget SDR-Server, get an Airspy R2 and handle everything via SPYServer. Too bad SDRC on Spyserver doesn't support AGC-OFF and ATT control on the HF+ (i need those to avoid interference from the MW transmitter located 10 km away in LoS of my aerials...)

Stu C
 

I did read the early posts but then sent a link to MS troubleshooting audio issues together with a hint to search and consider Tomshardeware posts so I was mainly thinking about recently after any changes.
Most trouble shooting is just breaking down the parts where errors occur (right now) and not getting tripped up by "not changing that", "can't be that" or "checked that some time back".

There are things like packet sizes, retries, other protocols on the network interfaces, QOS, Wifi Ack timing, buffering, WDS issues WPA links, power saving, other software running on the interfaces.

My gut feeling is that SDR Console and server push the streaming audio chain well so anything that trips up the timing or gets dropped packets will be handled differently by some drivers and OS updates.

So if I wanted try and recreate your situation I'd have a fairly low powered PC (single thread Passmark ~730) running some SDR's locally (via hub(USB2/or 3?) or direct?) then WiFi link it (what security, ack distance? - less than 2km from memory) and test from Win 10 1803 (Home or Pro?). Can't say I will be able to recreate but I do believe in plotting stuff out loud as it often prompts someone to say "no he also has X in the chain".

I see the update, OK will still try to recreate here for the knowledge.

Stu

StuOn 10/11/2018 11:54, @PM_IU3JGG wrote:

StuC did you read what I posted before here? I'm afraid no.

SDR SERVER SYSTEM:
Mitac PD10AI-N3350, Intel Celeron N3350 SoC, 8GB RAM, 2x Intel i211AT wired interfaces, Win10LTSC-1809

CURRENT SYSTEMS TESTED:
LAPTOP Lenovo T470, i7-7500U, 8GB RAM, Intel HD620, Intel 7265AC, Intel i219-V: stutters on AC wireless and wired
LAPTOP Lenovo T440p, i5-4300M, 8GB RAM, Intel HD4600, Intel 7260N, Intel i217-V: stutters on N wireless and wired
LAPTOP Lenovo E550, i5-5200U, 16GB RAM, Intel HD5500, Intel 7260AC, Intel i218-V: stutters on AC wireless and wired
LAPTOP Dell XPS15-9560, i5-7300HQ, 8GB RAM, Nvidia GTX1050, Killer 1535AC: stutters on AC wireless (no wired ethernet)
DESKTOP Asrock Z270 Supercarrier, i7-7700K, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GTX1050, Intel i211AT, Intel i217-V, Aquantia AQC108: works perfectly on all wired network interfaces
DESKTOP Gigabyte B75M-D3H, i3-3220, 4GB RAM, Nvidia GT1030, Realtek 8111F: works perfectly on wired

I still have to try on my brother's desktop, will do ASAP.

All these client systems have different hardware and different drivers for almost everything, OS is Win10-1803 for all.

Connecting SDR-Console to the SPYSERVER, which runs alongside SDR-Server on the remote system, works PERFECTLY on ALL CLIENTS, on the HF+ only of course.
Running SDR-Console locally, that means on the attic system to which the radios are USB-connected, works PERFECTLY if you don't pretend too much from a dual-core netbook-derived ATOM chip, I was able to get 6-7 MHz BW on the RSP2, no problem on HF+.

It seems like a problem of SDR-Console when it runs on a LAPTOP PC connected to a remote SDR-Server. Strange enough...

@PM_IU3JGG
 

The PD10AI motherboard has four USB3.0 ports on the rear which come direct from SoC (root hub), two M.2 slots (M.2-2280 SATA+USB and M.2-2230 PCIE+USB), both empty at the moment (planning for using the 2230 with a Intel 7265AC card) and a USB2.0 header connected to the front case ports (unused). Of the four rear USB3.0 ports two are for radios and one for a Logitech unifying receiver for when I operate locally with a small wireless keyboard. The two SATA3 ports are connected to a Samsung 850PRO 128GB (boot OS drive) and a 850EVO 500GB (storage drive).
A Netgear GS110TP switch handles the LAN traffic for the remote QTH, accounting four IP cameras (100M), SDR PC (1000) and the CPE wireless bridge (100). I planned on putting a small wireless AP too for local WLAN connectivity, but it's still sitting on a pile of cables there.

The wireless link between my home and the remote QTH is handled by two TP-Link CPE510 devices upgraded to OpenWrt 18.0.6.1. The one at my home is configured as AP(WDS) while the remote QTH one is a CLIENT(WDS), encryption system WPA2-AES, auto 20/40 BW and auto short/long GI, beacon 100. Throughput never falls below 40 Mbps in severely bad weather conditions, usually 70-80 Mbps. QoS and WMM enabled.

I usually install some version of Intel LAN drivers (PROWinX64.exe), at the QTH PC because I need WOL from power off state (WIn10 fast startup disabled) and on my other systems to enhance stability. If not, sometimes MS Windows Update provided driver remains. For wireless cards I install the latest driver package from Intel every year or so, I'll see with this Killer card on the Dell laptop how it manages.

Sound cards are various Realtek codecs (ALC283 on the QTH PC, 3232/232/262 on laptops, 892 on my Asrock board) or Asus Xonar Essence ST cards but for now I never used them for SDR if available, only onboard audio or video card HDMI.

I checked SDR-Server log but nothing to complain, just opening and closing of connections, so I'd direct my search towards SDR-Console.

All client systems run Win10 Pro 1803 except my brother's desktop that's Win10 Home 1803. My friends laptop runs Win7 Ultimate.

If I remember correctly, since I made all efforts of finding out this on my Lenovo T470, it stuttered but not so badly on Win10 1709 (I upgraded to 1803 in september only, since it has a Intel NVME SSD that had some issues with first releases of 1803), and it was in part also due to crowded wireless channels here which hindered the link throughput, now with OpenWrt I selected a less crowded channel. Upon upgrading to 1803 it doomed SDR-Console.

@PM_IU3JGG
 

Now that you make me think, with old SDRC-V2 it had the option to switch between standard DS and WASAPI for sound, and I remember it had some very few sound hiccups every now and then which switching to WASAPI didn't fix. Since V3 has only WASAPI, might it be something related to 1803 audio layer to Wasapi to audio card driver to SDRCv3? It still wouldn't explain why does it happen only on LAN connection, if I take down the radios from the attic and hook them up to my laptop USB ports they're supposed to work. I didn't check but it takes me nothing to go up there with a laptop and hook up at least one radio with a USB extension cable.

Stu C
 

The LAN may be affecting packets sizes and throwing in some interesting issues via shared (CCTV) devices sending broadcast or even broken packets that get chopped by the WiFi link (sorry if I missed a step, need to reread and clarify layout in my mind).
WPA2 via WDS can be specific to the firmware and chipset (partly a guess but I lost a full weekend to trying to get multiple brands connected).

So armed with your reply I Googled "WASAPI stutter 1803" I get to a thread on hydrogenaud.io
Seem to point to accurate timing affects the stutter seen on there - may be/" other software, probably unrelated/ issue".
Interesting last comment though"I just want to report that with Windows 10 1809 this issue seems to be addressed by Microsoft."

Another link from that G search talks about a registry key for power handling (windowsreport.com one) - Key 4d36e96c-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318
I won't post the links as not sure the policy on here re cross site links.
That reg key is interesting (to me) though as I wonder if the defaults are different for laptops..

Stu

On 10/11/2018 13:34, @PM_IU3JGG wrote:
Now that you make me think, with old SDRC-V2 it had the option to switch between standard DS and WASAPI for sound, and I remember it had some very few sound hiccups every now and then which switching to WASAPI didn't fix. Since V3 has only WASAPI, might it be something related to 1803 audio layer to Wasapi to audio card driver to SDRCv3? It still wouldn't explain why does it happen only on LAN connection, if I take down the radios from the attic and hook them up to my laptop USB ports they're supposed to work. I didn't check but it takes me nothing to go up there with a laptop and hook up at least one radio with a USB extension cable.