Moving to new qth..Hi Simon!!

house looks over lovely valley, 150m across valley on top of moor, is a prime location to setup a beverage etc and remote sdr.
line of sight 150-200m distance.

assuming can get permission from farmer to setup solar panel , box etc what if any sdr’s are suitable for this requirement?? Hl2?? 

100khz-30mhz, but mainly 100khz-7mhz..Rx only needed.

thanks Other Simon..

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 06:30 PM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

house looks over lovely valley, 150m across valley on top of moor, is a prime location to setup a beverage etc and remote sdr.
line of sight 150-200m distance.

Hi Simon (Mag)

Congratulations on new house. Not in any way wanting to put dampener on, but just a plea to think about wildlife. Stringing low wires across fields in open countryside, deer will get tangled up at night. Slightly higher wires, birds will hit it, especially owls when scanning field for rodents. If you think it does not happen I have it on my own security cams, owl hitting my low slung (and luckily very slack) wire. He (she?) was OK. If it had been pulled tight I reckon high chance they would not have flown off so happily. Even so, may have been injured of course. Not proud of it. That wire has now gone. Now got much higher EFHW well above usual "hunting owl height" but kept slack for the same reason. I've got space to put out any number of wires on my own land but as a wildlife lover I don't for exactly that reason, though of course I know many do. Usual response is "I've never seen it happen", but that doesn't mean it does not.

Sorry, still fuming from idiot walker crossing field this afternoon with two stupid dogs off lead (sorry, that's perfectly OK dogs with stupid owner) totally out of control, off footpath and all over field chasing after previously peaceful grazing deer who then get panicked to jump fence in awkward place. Now, "where's me gun Rosemary......." (one for those in the UK old enough to recognise the reference from classic TV series!).

73

Max

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 06:30 PM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

house looks over lovely valley, 150m across valley on top of moor, is a prime location to setup a beverage etc and remote sdr.
line of sight 150-200m distance.

Hi Simon (Mag)

Congratulations on new house. Not in any way wanting to put dampener on, but just a plea to think about wildlife. Stringing low wires across fields in open countryside, deer will get tangled up at night. Slightly higher wires, birds will hit it, especially owls when scanning field for rodents. If you think it does not happen I have it on my own security cams, owl hitting my low slung (and luckily very slack) wire. He (she?) was OK. If it had been pulled tight I reckon high chance they would not have flown off so happily. Even so, may have been injured of course. Not proud of it. That wire has now gone. Now got much higher EFHW well above usual "hunting owl height" but kept slack for the same reason. I've got space to put out any number of wires on my own land but as a wildlife lover I don't for exactly that reason, though of course I know many do. Usual response is "I've never seen it happen", but that doesn't mean it does not.

Sorry, still fuming from idiot walker crossing field this afternoon with two stupid dogs off lead (sorry, that's perfectly OK dogs with stupid owner) totally out of control, off footpath and all over field chasing after previously peaceful grazing deer who then get panicked to jump fence in awkward place. Now, "where's me gun Rosemary......." (one for those in the UK old enough to recognise the reference from classic TV series!).

73

Max

Consider the probability of an owl connecting with a wire. What is the intersection area for the likely owl orientations vs all the other paths it could have taken. I suspect it is very small. That suggests to me that there may be an owl overpopulation if the owl/wire collision happens with any frequency. To me that suggests this is something to see as lamentable but not something to get worked up about.

With regards to the analysis I wonder if a tight copper-weld wire would be better than a slack wire. The slack wire's curve would make a collision more likely near the wire ends or mid-supports.

As for deer interactions - the deer ate your rosemary.

{o.o}   (Just sorta thinking out typer.)

I have been using an Afedri network SDR( AFE822 dual channel) backhauled over 16Km using modified Ubiquiti 2.4GHz links for over 6 years.
I have limited the total data flow to be around half the half-duplex bandwidth of my Ubiquiti link and applied QoS to UDP traffic to prevent drop-outs when other HTTP traffic is running over the link. This means that I am normally running 2 X 96KHz channels on the SDR but can also run 192KHz. The Afedri runs on the back of a dual 144MHz transverter and is part of my remote EME station.

Over shorter distances for remote HF monitoring I have used Ubiquiti 5GHz kit and a Hermes SDR. The whole remote end runs for a couple of days on a car battery, so could fairly easily be solar powered. Hopefully with no 'nasty' switching regulators/inverters!

There is a little more and a lot about setting up a remote amateur station (UK licence conditions) in my chapter (complete re-write not the original by other authors) on remote operation in the very recently updated RSGB book Computers in Amateur Radio.
https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Computers-in-Amateur-Radio-1368.html


Fairly easy really...............

John G4SWX

Hello John

When you say, "the very recently updated RSGB book Computers in Amateur Radio" can you please give me some idea of what you mean by "very recently updated"?
The RSGB web site doesn't give any indication of the date of publication or edition and a Google search seems to suggest various years of publication.

Many thanks

Tracey G5VU

Using fuzzy math, 200m is 656', I can't see why a WiFi link with yagi antennas can't make it. An old router or access point with removable antennas replaced with a yagi or two (diversity antennas) and an Ethernet based SDR? No laptop required. Just have to research power consumption of said router and compute solar panel and battery size. I was doing a +300' WiFi link to shed with mine using old Linksys routers flashed with DDRT. Only 58MBps top speed, but the bovines liked to eat the grass between the repeater shed and my home router and it would drop down to <1MBps. Buried CAT6 and now have 100MBps up and down.

Cheaper would be to just run RG-6 or RG-11 out to the site, possibly a pre-amp out at the far end and call it a day. I have a 300' run of 1/2 retired CATV line feeding my Super Station #2 (no far end pre-amp either). It's an inverted L (150' long end fed wire) with a 9:1 unun and ground stake (drops noise floor 1.5 to 2 S units on low bands!) I used my pneumatic tennis ball launcher to get line up and over thee trees along the property line.

It appears to hear intermittent powerline leakage from 600' away now. Grrrrrrr
Here's Super Station #2 right now on 17M midday:

73 Kriss KA1GJU





Hi All

Lets start with Max..

Assuming farmer allows me to put up a remote station..beverage will be along hedges. Not in middle of field..and won’t be using razor wire..deers.. hmm again at hedge height? Owls or more likely hawks??

By the way i will be putting up an owl box in telegraph pole at end of garden, .not sure what telecom company will think, but hey..I encourage wildlife here in east London, have 50 or so sparrows living in hedge..ok nothing exotic, but before we moved here was desolate of birds, now they wander around our feet! ( bird boxes around house etc.) along with blue and great tits, finches etc..( though they are much more “ private)

Next John g4swx..

Please tell me more about aledri sdr..ie compared to say my ( sold it) HL2 or currently owned elad duo.. only asking here about rx, ( YES I know duo not ethernet.) .cost?
Only reason sold the HL2 was wife bought me the duo and said one has to go…

Also ..can i download book anywhere??

Next Kriss

Has to be linked, no cables as going over land that I will not get permission to use.( unless buy..) .and small lane and stream ( with water mill) etc..( can you tell no longer ultra urban east London??)

Next Simon

I was steering away from wifi due to possible interference issues..( probably from own house..) Ubiquiti was my idea..any thoughts on this?? Kids and wife use wifi for everything, but link would be clear of house and 30m or do above local valley house..)

But still all.. A good low band Ethernet type controlled ( no pc at remote end ) rx to use??? 100khz- 7mhz main interest. Recommended???

HL2 I know is good, but nolonger in production..never will be I suspect..
MUST work with sdrc..ideally not expensive as stuck out in a field. Plus Wife permission!

Thanks Other Simon g0zen

Ps Simon..don’t worry not on your door step unless house falls though.. please let it not! ( though line of sight I think as up circa 300m ) then looking at Garras ( real nice place there) and Ashton, maybe Rosguden..

3rd edition, Edited by Lorna Smart 2E0FGI out in the past few weeks

John G4SWX

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 09:20 AM, Kriss Kliegle KA1GJU wrote:

Using fuzzy math, 200m is 656', I can't see why a WiFi link with yagi antennas can't make it.

Depends upon the WifI chip set/firmware and how flexible the timing is.
Uniquiti use the Atheros chip-set and you can do such stuff, particularly if you re-flash the firmware - others are not so flexible.
Yagi antennas are complete garbage at 2.4GHz with all sorts of unrealistic claims.......... Small dishes are far better and usually match the theoretical predictions.
Chinese 'boosters' are often very helpful but actual measured output power is often only 60% of that cited.
If you really have a clear path a 5GHz is far better.

John G4SWX

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:44 AM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

Next John g4swx..

Please tell me more about aledri sdr..ie compared to say my ( sold it) HL2 or currently owned elad duo.. only asking here about rx, ( YES I know duo not ethernet.) .cost?
Only reason sold the HL2 was wife bought me the duo and said one has to go…

You have said it !
A SDR with only a USB connection is pretty useless for remote SDR operation without a host PC or other processor. For those with an Ethernet interface it depends on how the interface has been implemented.

I will NOT go into comparisons of the various SDR hardware for you. You can do your own research. Start with:
https://www.afedri-sdr.com/
Although for HF I prefer my Hermes SDR.

> Also ..can i download book anywhere??

No, you can purchase it from RSGB sales.

John G4SWX

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:06 PM, Tracey Gardner wrote:

The RSGB website still shows the old edition.

Correct!
The latest edition has a completely different front page and is separately listed:
https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Computers-in-Amateur-Radio-2145.html#SID=26

However, I am not completely sold on the chapter on SDR............

John G4SWX

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 07:44 PM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

Assuming farmer allows me to put up a remote station..beverage will be along hedges. Not in middle of field..and won’t be using razor wire..deers.. hmm again at hedge height? Owls or more likely hawks??

Hi Simon. Yes, if along hedge I agree, zero hazard to roaming wildlife (or owls!). Most beverages I've seen described are on a string pf posts at low height and over open land. Yes, I can see it's not going to be easy to get permission for an antenna running over open ground unless it's on your own land. I only mentioned it because having lived in wide open country for quite a while here in Sussex I can attest to animals being injured in just about every way imaginable as we are very used to taking constant trips to the local wildlife hospital so hope you did not mind me just mentioning it as a consideration. Not intended to cause offence. Just does not hurt to make people aware now and again as amateurs (and I am guilty) tend to only think of primary purpose of antenna, not any other repercussions. Like all of us I guess, I too see an antenna as a thing of beauty! As I say, I have my own 132ft EFHW at 45ft so I'm not totally innocent in that regard. Have tried to minimise the risk by (a) not using thin invisible wire, which would cause a nasty injury, and (b) trying to keep it above average regular bird height - most tend to fly low and (c) keeping a bit of slack to as to hopefully not act as a "garrote" to a colliding bird wing.

Also bear in mind if it's in the hedge you will probably need to remove it for hedge cutting which most (not all) land owners do once a year in the autumn.

Good luck with whatever you end up with. Note seems no recognition from anyone on "where's me gun, Rosemary". Nobody else remembers "The Herbs" then?! 

Re: HL2, that's a pity you had to get rid, but I do think Makerfabs will produce more at some point if the FPGA becomes available once again. I think it's a very popular and profitable line for them. They did actually do a small run about 2-3 months ago, possibly using salvaged FPGAs, but all snapped up within about 48 hours. I would "watch this space" if still interested. I'm thinking of getting another myself just to dedicate to transverters.

73

Max

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:51 PM, Tracey Gardner wrote:

Hello Max

 

Up here in Lincolnshire, I had a 550m long west/east Beverage run alongside a hedge supported on electric fence posts for a few years.

The only problem with it was, as you say, that I had to take it down and reel all 550m of wire in and gather all the fence posts in every time that the farmer wanted to cut his hedge or cut the set-aside strip around the edge of the field.

Hi Tracey

Yes, I feel your pain. Our hedges are all hawthorn and it's no joke getting spiked, even through welders' gloves!

The big question is, was it worth it? Wonder what the real-life performance of the antenna proved to be like? Was it significantly better (or worse) than, say, a Wellbrook (or derivative) active loop, for example? I've often wondered.

73

Max

Hi Max

The answer to your question is a yes..

Check the polar pattern of said loops..and you will find your answer..

To make said loops or short verticals comparable one needs to phase 2, preferably 3 inline..

Which i have ready for new house ( assuming it bloody actually happens!!)

LZ1AQ delay line box and 3 crossed parallel loops, this gives switching in 4 directions. ( see LZ1AQ web pages.)
And the 9 ele array of short verticals, this switches 3 in phase at a time..though no space for that! ( 40 m dia circle required.)
So it will be the LZ1AQ design..( only need to be spaced 10m apart in a equalatural ( spelt that wrong) triangle.
But that won’t becas good as a well made long beverage, but WILL give 4 directions and very little nvis rx PLUS low ( ish) angle elevation, UNLIKE a single loop, welbrock or not..

Simon

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 05:51 PM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

Hi Max

The answer to your question is a yes..

Check the polar pattern of said loops..and you will find your answer..

To make said loops or short verticals comparable one needs to phase 2, preferably 3 inline..

OK thanks Simon. That explains the theory succinctly. I wondered what Tracey actually saw "in the real world" i.e. were his efforts rewarded! Have you run a beverage before yourself, or experienced one? I know I should look up the full theory and no doubt all will be revealed (if I could even understand it) but they always struck me as an antenna that breaks all the rule books because we are always told that to be effective an antenna needs to be in clear space and at least 1/2 wave from the ground, and yet these Beverages are quite the reverse.

73

Max

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:51 PM, Tracey Gardner wrote:

Hello Max

 

Up here in Lincolnshire, I had a 550m long west/east Beverage run alongside a hedge supported on electric fence posts for a few years.

The only problem with it was, as you say, that I had to take it down and reel all 550m of wire in and gather all the fence posts in every time that the farmer wanted to cut his hedge or cut the set-aside strip around the edge of the field.

Hi Tracey

Yes, I feel your pain. Our hedges are all hawthorn and it's no joke getting spiked, even through welders' gloves!

The big question is, was it worth it? Wonder what the real-life performance of the antenna proved to be like? Was it significantly better (or worse) than, say, a Wellbrook (or derivative) active loop, for example? I've often wondered.

73

Max

I think I feel your pain. Out here in So Cal's inland low desert we have a somewhat similar gem called Jerusalem Thorn. I think the Jerusalem came from not wanting to use "Jesus", a common exclamation when encountering the bush. It has an array of thorn sizes. Around nearly every branch or leaf there are short 4 to 10 mm thorns. But there are also older bundles of thorns up to maybe 1.5 cm+. (Wikipedia underestimates it dramatically.) They will go right through sneaker soles. I managed to move slowly and carefully to cut off branches to bring three moderately big (5 m or so) bushes over a week's time. At the time we had teenagers using our yard as a thoroughfare. Somehow those branches found their way to the out of the way place they were jumping over the fence. The thick jacket I used to help protect my skin was rather ripped up by the time I am done. Running wire through stuff like that would take uncommon courage. You guys are crazy!

The infernal stuff keeps trying to grow back. And the thorns laugh at thick leather gloves. (It's not as annoying as "puncture weed" which invades houses and bedrooms stuck to the soles of any kind of shoe. But, that's another ramble.)

{o.o}

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 05:51 PM, Mag loop Simon wrote:

Hi Max

The answer to your question is a yes..

Check the polar pattern of said loops..and you will find your answer..

To make said loops or short verticals comparable one needs to phase 2, preferably 3 inline..

OK thanks Simon. That explains the theory succinctly. I wondered what Tracey actually saw "in the real world" i.e. were his efforts rewarded! Have you run a beverage before yourself, or experienced one? I know I should look up the full theory and no doubt all will be revealed (if I could even understand it) but they always struck me as an antenna that breaks all the rule books because we are always told that to be effective an antenna needs to be in clear space and at least 1/2 wave from the ground, and yet these Beverages are quite the reverse.

73

Max

Rule 1. If it conducts it radiates no matter where it is.

Rule 2. All we can do is negotiate with nature about how well and where it radiates.

Rule 3. If it radiates it receives with equivalent efficiency.

Rule 4. On HF, particularly below maybe 15 MHz, efficiency is not important.

With that in your mind the tool called EZNEC, antenna modeling software, is a terribly addictive way to get a notion of what any given antenna will do. Do NOT count on it being super accurate. It shows trends nicely. The better the model the better the results. (That includes including your house, the appliances in the kitchen, the car in your driveway, ... enh you get the idea. Use it for looking at trends not perfect results.) WARNING: As you get to playing with it EZNEC becomes more and more addictive. I had to go cold turkey for awhile.

{o.o}