Topics

No RIFF Field

Larry Weaver
 

After recording overnight looking for NDB and DGPS stations I attempted to run the audio file through both "PSkov Spectrum Builder" and also "Amalgamated DGPS" software. I've never had a problem until I upgraded to SDR Console 3.0.6 yesterday. Both programs presented me with a window stating the file was not a WAV file and that there was "No RIFF Field". Has something changed and I need to change a setting in SDR Console?

Thank you,
Larry

Tony_AD0VC
 

Simon switched to a new wav file format that allows you to record enormous files. Looks like it is not backwards compatible or he has more work to do with it.

Tony


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Larry Weaver <larryiweaver@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field
 
After recording overnight looking for NDB and DGPS stations I attempted to run the audio file through both "PSkov Spectrum Builder" and also "Amalgamated DGPS" software. I've never had a problem until I upgraded to SDR Console 3.0.6 yesterday. Both programs presented me with a window stating the file was not a WAV file and that there was "No RIFF Field". Has something changed and I need to change a setting in SDR Console?

Thank you,
Larry

edoardo nicoletti
 

Same problem here.

Edoardo

Simon Brown
 

Ah,

 

My mistake, will be fixed in 3.0.7 (a week or so). I’ll get this fixed now…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 04:26
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Same problem here.

Edoardo

Ken Alexander
 

Maybe that will fix the problem I have noticed of the zoomed in display in Console and the Signal Analyzer display showing little resemblance to each other, plus signals in the Console waterfall that do not appear in the Signal Analyzer display.  

I'll wait for 3.0.7.

Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 16:31 Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Ah,

 

My mistake, will be fixed in 3.0.7 (a week or so). I’ll get this fixed now…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 04:26
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Same problem here.

Edoardo

Simon Brown
 

Larry,

 

It’s not an audio file it’s a WAV file, but anyway that’s just a semantic. I changed the format to WAV RF64 which is a valid standard, the other programs you are using don’t support RF64. RF64 allows a recording in a single file of any size.

 

What I will do in 3.0.7 is use the WAV RIFF format if the file size option is selected with a size of 2GB or less, WAV RF64 is the file size is > 2GB or unlimited.

 

I’ll get in contact with Black Cat systems about Amalgamated DGPS and supply a sample. I can’t find PSkov Spectrum Builder – do you have a link?

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony_AD0VC
Sent: 13 March 2019 00:12
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Simon switched to a new wav file format that allows you to record enormous files. Looks like it is not backwards compatible or he has more work to do with it.

 

Tony

 


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Larry Weaver <larryiweaver@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 1:32 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

After recording overnight looking for NDB and DGPS stations I attempted to run the audio file through both "PSkov Spectrum Builder" and also "Amalgamated DGPS" software. I've never had a problem until I upgraded to SDR Console 3.0.6 yesterday. Both programs presented me with a window stating the file was not a WAV file and that there was "No RIFF Field". Has something changed and I need to change a setting in SDR Console?

Thank you,
Larry

Simon Brown
 

Ken,

 

I can’t fix a bug unless you report it with screenshots please.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Alexander
Sent: 13 March 2019 09:49
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Maybe that will fix the problem I have noticed of the zoomed in display in Console and the Signal Analyzer display showing little resemblance to each other, plus signals in the Console waterfall that do not appear in the Signal Analyzer display.  

 

I'll wait for 3.0.7.

Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

 

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 16:31 Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Ah,

 

My mistake, will be fixed in 3.0.7 (a week or so). I’ll get this fixed now…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 04:26
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Same problem here.

Edoardo

edoardo nicoletti
 

The email to contact Ivan Monogarov, the programmer of PskovNDB is monogarov @ gmail.com (delete spaces).

Edoardo

Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

Do you have a URL for the program / product?

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 11:08
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

The email to contact Ivan Monogarov, the programmer of PskovNDB is monogarov @ gmail.com (delete spaces).

Edoardo

Ken Alexander
 

Hi Simon,

OK, this is interesting.  A little more research shows that the waterfall on Console and the display in File Analyzer are flipped left-to-right.

Screenshot-A -- a zoomed in look at 1359 kHz.  Note the transmitter starting and the carrier gradually drifting onto the correct frequency over the course of 10 minutes.  Also note how the vertical carriers are arranged.

Screenshot-B -- the view on Console over about 6 minutes.  Note the arrangement of the vertical carriers is reversed and the new carrier is drifting in from the right, not the left as shown in the File Analyzer display.  Note that the frequency display (1358.981 kHz) in Console was set when I clicked on the beginning of the trace in File Analyzer.

Screenshot-C -- the carrier finally stabilizes on approx 1359 after about 10 minutes as the File Analyzer display shows.

Screenshot-D -- this is just to show the frequency the drifting carrier started (1358.019 kHz) on in the Console waterfall.

Interestingly the frequencies of the starting point of the drifting carriers are mirror images around 1359 kHz; +/- 0.019 kHz.  I don't know which display to believe.

RX:  Airspy HF+, recently calibrated using a Leo Bodnar GPS disciplined oscillator.

SDR Console -- 3.0.6, Build 1443, March 10, 2019

I still can't calibrate Console to either my calibrated HF+ or to my SDRPlay RSPduo with GPSDO attached.  The (+) or (-) 0.001 ppm buttons don't work until you click them about 3 or 4 times.  Then the display changes more than a single click of either 0.01 ppm button.  This has been a source of frustration for me because I want to contribute to the Mediumwave Offset community but can't trust any of my measurements because of the calibration issue.  What kind of screenshot do you want for this.  Let me know and I'll do it tonight.

Many thanks!

Ken Alexander
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com


On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:51 AM Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Ken,

 

I can’t fix a bug unless you report it with screenshots please.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Alexander
Sent: 13 March 2019 09:49
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Maybe that will fix the problem I have noticed of the zoomed in display in Console and the Signal Analyzer display showing little resemblance to each other, plus signals in the Console waterfall that do not appear in the Signal Analyzer display.  

 

I'll wait for 3.0.7.

Ken,
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

 

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 16:31 Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Ah,

 

My mistake, will be fixed in 3.0.7 (a week or so). I’ll get this fixed now…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 04:26
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Same problem here.

Edoardo

Tony_AD0VC
 

Simon,

I posted what is available over in the test team list.

Tony


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown <simon@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 5:37 AM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field
 

Hi,

 

Do you have a URL for the program / product?

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of edoardo nicoletti
Sent: 13 March 2019 11:08
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

The email to contact Ivan Monogarov, the programmer of PskovNDB is monogarov @ gmail.com (delete spaces).

Edoardo

Larry Weaver
 

Thank you very much Simon. I see someone else helped you with the contact info for Ivan already.

Larry N8NJ

edoardo nicoletti
 

https://yadi.sk/d/VYrOO-dAkom4Ew
This is the URL to PskovNDB
------------------------------- 
Edoardo

Paul White <paul@...>
 

Simon, any chance the new file type options could include an override for "always RF64"? That would be great for testing and PIAs like me.

Larry Weaver
 

Hello,
     When using version 3.0.14 I am getting the same RIFF errors again. Another person I know is also getting this error when dealing with PSkov Spectrum Builder.

Larry

Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

Which program gives you errors? If not SDR Console then it’s not my problem.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Weaver
Sent: 23 September 2019 19:46
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Hello,
     When using version 3.0.14 I am getting the same RIFF errors again. Another person I know is also getting this error when dealing with PSkov Spectrum Builder.

Larry

Larry Weaver
 

Hello Simon,
     With version 3.06 the "No RIFF Header" started. I reported it to you at that time, at the top of this thread, and you did fix it in the next release, 3.07. I stated that in Version 3.14 the "No RIFF Header" error is back. The RIFF error shows up in PSkov Spectrum Builder which is used to analyze WAV recordings to find weak NDB signals and in "Amalgated DGPS" a DGPS software decoder. If I record in real time I get an error about the wav file not being in correct format. If I try to process a scheduled recording I get the "No RIFF Header" error. I have attached images of both.
     I'm not a software engineer so I am certainly not pointing fingers. All I know it the first time these errors showed up you were able to fix them in the next release.

Regards,
Larry N8NJ 

Simon Brown
 

Larry,

 

Then contact the other program owner. You are probably creating a RF64 WAV file which the other software does not understand.

 

Not my fault (I think).

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Weaver
Sent: 24 September 2019 13:52
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Hello Simon,
     With version 3.06 the "No RIFF Header" started. I reported it to you at that time, at the top of this thread, and you did fix it in the next release, 3.07. I stated that in Version 3.14 the "No RIFF Header" error is back. The RIFF error shows up in PSkov Spectrum Builder which is used to analyze WAV recordings to find weak NDB signals and in "Amalgated DGPS" a DGPS software decoder. If I record in real time I get an error about the wav file not being in correct format. If I try to process a scheduled recording I get the "No RIFF Header" error. I have attached images of both.
     I'm not a software engineer so I am certainly not pointing fingers. All I know it the first time these errors showed up you were able to fix them in the next release.

Regards,
Larry N8NJ 

Simon Brown
 

And,

 

Now that I’ve finished eating 😊 – it always helps a great deal if you quote the previous post. I don’t have all postings available – there are over 50,000 in this group so I archive them away from time to time.

 

Anyway, the problem must be that you created a WAV RF64 file. If you’re not sure about this let me know, I’ll update the website with more information.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Larry Weaver
Sent: 24 September 2019 13:52
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] No RIFF Field

 

Hello Simon,
     With version 3.06 the "No RIFF Header" started. I reported it to you at that time, at the top of this thread, and you did fix it in the next release, 3.07. I stated that in Version 3.14 the "No RIFF Header" error is back. The RIFF error shows up in PSkov Spectrum Builder which is used to analyze WAV recordings to find weak NDB signals and in "Amalgated DGPS" a DGPS software decoder. If I record in real time I get an error about the wav file not being in correct format. If I try to process a scheduled recording I get the "No RIFF Header" error. I have attached images of both.
     I'm not a software engineer so I am certainly not pointing fingers. All I know it the first time these errors showed up you were able to fix them in the next release.

Regards,
Larry N8NJ 

Paul White <paul@...>
 

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 02:29 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
the problem must be that you created a WAV RF64 file.
Larry

If you are still uncertain where the problem lies, may I suggest a controlled experiment that should help to narrow it down?
I'd be happy to have a quick look at any WAV files you think are causing trouble, BUT they must be very short (~ 5 seconds) so you can post them as attachments.

Apologies for sounding pedantic, but maybe this will throw up something interesting.

There are 4 variables to consider:
  • Total file size/duration (IGNORING THIS, STAYING WITH SMALL FILES)
  • Spectrum width (IGNORING THIS, DGPS IS NARROW)
  • Sample depth (16 or 32 bits, which is NOT shown as part of the filename!)
  • File format (RIFF WAV or RIFF RF64, which BOTH have the file extension "wav"!)
So, in the "Start Recording" dialogue box, select Samples
  • EITHER 16-bit
  • OR 32-bit
Checkmark "File size" and 
  • EITHER set a low limit, to force "Format: WAV" (i.e. the "old" format)
  • OR set a high limit, to force "Format: WAV RF64" (i.e. the "new" format)
For each of the 4 combinations of sample depth and file format, create a recording *just a couple of seconds long*.
It may help to RENAME the files to include the combination used (16 or 32, plus WAV or RF64).

Try all 4 with both PSkov Spectrum Builder and Amalgamated DGPS.

Report which of the 8 combinations produce error, and attach the corresponding WAV file(s).