Now I've started to use it a bit more seriously I can see I get a full mirror image of signals on the CWS display. After Googling I can see that over a long period a large number of people have had the same issue (not only in SDRC) with various rigs and software, but a common theme is using an SDR to feed Skimmer via an IQ signal. I have not seen one solution offered. 

I'm doing this in SDRC in the prescribed way, using a dedicated VAC (Muzychenko) to feed to CWS in the SDRC CWS settings. Rig is Hermes Lite 2. It all works perfectly except for the mirroring inside CWS. I've also tried VB-Audio as the virtual cable. Exactly same result. See attached image.

A common theme seems to be a suggestion that this can be caused by feeding only one of the  I or Q signal to CWS but I've re-checked all my VAC settings, also within SDRC CWS setup, and I don't see anything abnormal, and as I say I get exactly same result using either VAC or VB-Audio cable.

Any ideas anyone? Simon, is it at all possible SDRC could be only sending one leg of IQ signal to CWS via the VAC?

Max

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 10:17 PM, Max wrote:

Now I've started to use it a bit more seriously I can see I get a full mirror image of signals on the CWS display. After Googling I can see that over a long period a large number of people have had the same issue (not only in SDRC) with various rigs and software, but a common theme is using an SDR to feed Skimmer via an IQ signal. I have not seen one solution offered. 

Forgot to attach image. Here it is:

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 06:51 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

As the core coding of SDR Console is more or less complete, I can now dig into areas that interest me more. A good CW decoder is definitely a wish of mine, so a skimmer would also be quite doable. With the hobby in decline however, I have to really consider where I invest programming effort.

Would be great Simon. But as far as you know, is the mirror image to be accepted as normal? I can see previous posts on here with the same issue but not yet seen one with a resolution?

Max

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 10:33 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

I doubt there's anything I can do - I'll check the code but as it happens with other SDR I assume it's the IQ interface.

OK thanks Simon. It could be something my end, but it's odd seeing so many others reporting the same issue, but some (I think) report it works OK with some other software. I think HPSDR for example? Maybe leave it for a bit and I will install some other softwares and see if they have the same issue.

Max

On 01/01/2023 10:56, Simon Brown wrote:

If you see a perfect mirror as soon as you start, then the VAC isn't running in stereo.

I've never found any problems with IQ and VAC/VB, don't know how to set them to mono.

If a soundcard input happens to be used it may not be stereo.
Trouble is many of the failure reports can be from inexperienced people who give up.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 11:45 AM, Alan G4ZFQ wrote:

I've never found any problems with IQ and VAC/VB, don't know how to set them to mono.

OK all. So, for those that are interested I have now solved this but it was not at all what I was expecting.

I have a fresh Windows 11 install. First thing I did was listen to stereo FM on SDRC. Immediately apparent it was mono only. So then went to YouTube and listened to music videos. To my great surprise, also these were all mono.

So now I have discovered there is a nasty gotcha in Windows setup that I never would have known existed, and even bigger mystery how it even came to be enabled? I have no idea as it's nothing I would ever have selected myself. It seems in their wisdom, they've produced a setting in "Accessibility" settings that can make entire Windows sound system operate in mono, and this also therefore applies to VACs! See this link and also see attached picture.

https://tinyurl.com/4xvks883

 I deselected "Mono" and not surprisingly all was good once again. CW Skimmer back to normal.

Thanks for the pointers Simon and Alan.

Max

Simon - I for one would love to see you tackle a Skimmer.
As far as the CW arm of this Hobby, I don't know if it's in decline. Groups like CWOps, SKCC and Long Island CW Club are all experiencing healthy growth, year over year. And both LICWC and CWOps have ongoing classes that people are lined up to enter. So, in my humble opinion..CW is growing. If one checks the bands during a CW contest or the weekly activities sessions that CWOps and other organizations holds, the activity levels are huge. That coupled with the growth of SDR's, would seem to indicate that you would have many users.
73 & Happy New Year
Paul
w2eck

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 05:06 PM, w2eck wrote:

So, in my humble opinion..CW is growing.

Paul, I would agree. To me it seems there is an upsurge in interest. Sadly though, as ever, it seems rarely of interest to anyone under about 50 years of age. I think lockdowns during the pandemic have resulted in the whole ham radio hobby showing boosted interest as older hams come back to the hobby in retirement having drifted away during their "career and family" years. We need younger people to understand what it is about the hobby that all of us on here find so interesting, namely (in my opinion) point to point communication over long distances with zero assistance from the involvement of the kit installed by multi-million £/$ corporations.

Be interesting to know if there is anyone reading this thread now who is under the age of 35! Anyone out there?

73 and Happy New Year also

Max

On 01/01/2023 17:02, Max wrote:

 I deselected "Mono" and not surprisingly all was good once again.

I see it is available on W10 as well, setting it on must be a W11 bug?
Google found the setting "all mono "windows 11" and I see "Stereo Mix" is also available as disabled devices. So many options.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

and now add a handfull of virtual audio cables, a mixer software and a handfull of digi mode software .... go figure

dg9bfc sigi

Am 01.01.2023 um 18:22 schrieb Alan G4ZFQ:

If you are typing or are reading CW on your screen, you are not running CW. Instead, you are instead running a digital mode. You're cheating the CW "tradition."

{o.o}  That's my typically arrogant opinion and I stand by it. IMAO CW is an anachronism.

If i or q is missing that happens.
--
Thanks Steve M0ZEH

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 10:42 PM, jdow wrote:

If you are typing or are reading CW on your screen, you are not running CW. Instead, you are instead running a digital mode. You're cheating the CW "tradition."

Totally agree Joanne. However, the intended purpose of CW Skimmer is not to use CW as a datamode. It's for manual CW operators to quickly spot what stations are on the band and instantly tune to them. At least that's how I use it. (The use of up/down keyboard cursor keys on the CW Skimmer display was a revelation to me!). If you use a keyboard to work CW then to me personally, that's a pointless exercise, and better served by a whole host of other datamodes, like VARA, JT8, PSK31, FT8 etc, all of which I also run (well, not JS8Call yet, but trying to get round to it).

However, "live and let live" is my motto, and if people want to use a keyboard so be it. I suspect (from listening at the absurdly high speed mechanised pounding that occupies the bands during CW contests) that less than 10% (probably much less) of the contest operation takes place via a manual key. To me, that totally defeats the object, although I'm not a contester so not my place to say. On YouTube there are videos of CW contesters operating two CW contest frequencies simultaneously via keyboard. For sure that's a great skill in itself and a sight to behold, but just not in sending and receiving CW by ear/hand!

73

Max

Amen to that.

When I was on the air, I alays used an electronic keyer / keyboard, but the decoding was and still is always done using the MK 1 ear.

Most CWSimmer users use the program to see the activity in the passband and and who is calling CQ, QRL and who just sent a 599 indicating an end to a qso.   Not for decoding, there are lots of other programs that do that. 

73 paul  w2eck

On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 10:42 PM, jdow wrote:

If you are typing or are reading CW on your screen, you are not running CW. Instead, you are instead running a digital mode. You're cheating the CW "tradition."

Totally agree Joanne. However, the intended purpose of CW Skimmer is not to use CW as a datamode. It's for manual CW operators to quickly spot what stations are on the band and instantly tune to them. At least that's how I use it.

That is still cheating. CW is supposed to be the minimalist mode, the simplest setup you can use to transfer call signs and other typical textual data. It society breaks down and you have to cobble together a transmitter and receiver, CW is your simplest mode. You won't have a spectrum toy showing you what signals are around. You will have to tune around blind to find them. If you want more than imitate the pioneer spirit then go to a real digital mode. It's somebody bringing a blunderbuss to a Society of Creative Anachronisms get campout.

(The use of up/down keyboard cursor keys on the CW Skimmer display was a revelation to me!). If you use a keyboard to work CW then to me personally, that's a pointless exercise, and better served by a whole host of other datamodes, like VARA, JT8, PSK31, FT8 etc, all of which I also run (well, not JS8Call yet, but trying to get round to it).

However, "live and let live" is my motto, and if people want to use a keyboard so be it. I suspect (from listening at the absurdly high speed mechanised pounding that occupies the bands during CW contests) that less than 10% (probably much less) of the contest operation takes place via a manual key. To me, that totally defeats the object, although I'm not a contester so not my place to say. On YouTube there are videos of CW contesters operating two CW contest frequencies simultaneously via keyboard. For sure that's a great skill in itself and a sight to behold, but just not in sending and receiving CW by ear/hand!

It can't be policed; but, the ham involved knows if he cheated or not.... If you cannot do it right then don't do it or learn how to do it right. (A speed over 150 WPM is beyond typing speed so it's likely cheating. 100 WPM is well within typing speed and a "mill" is arguably part of the tradition.)

73

Max

_._,_._,_

{^_^}