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ARGH! My stuttering is back on the SDR-iq's via remote

Kriss Kliegle
 

SDR-iq's #2  and #3 on one netbook are now stutter withing my own LAN from select desktops. If I do some web browsing, it clears up for the most part. Sometimes it comes back, but not as bad.
Doesn't matter what bandwidth started or switched to.
The SDRPlay #2 on a neighboring netbook in the repeater shed operating at 1MHz bandwidth runs just fine from the client machine through all the network pieces


Artist rendition of my network currently:     (The ==> and <== below are hardwired connections)

Netbook  ==>        5 port 10/100Mbbs Switch                ==>  DD-WRT Router(Repeater Bridge)  ==>  Verizon ISP Router  <==   Net Geat 10/100Mbbs Switch   <==    Client W7 Intel i5-3350P CPU @3.10GHz
in repeater           2 SDR netbooks, Dstar Laptop                           WAP and switch in barn                             in house                         in office/shack feeding
shed                                                                                                                                                                                                       ADSB Pie and SDR-iq #1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   SDRPlay#1 Netbook
 
The XYL's old i3 laptop runs the same server just fine, no stuttering at all.
XYL's laptop is hardwired right to Verizon Router, but still has to go thru the same DD-WRT modified Lyksys Routerin barn and the switch in shed.

Can folks outside my LAN access my SDR-iq #2 and #3 and see how it behaves?

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Stu C
 

Quickish reply,
The "DD-WRT Router(Repeater Bridge)" is a red flag, WiFi repeaters can half the available bandwidth as they receive and retransmit the data, WPA bridges can be a bit slow anyway, add in clients and it's not a good arrangement for throughput.
That with 100M switches stands out to me as a bottleneck. If you don't actually use the repeater side just dedicate that WiFi to P-P and use another access point for clients.

I've gone over to fibre here as Mikrotik stuff is excellent value and two Managed 5 port Gig switches with fibre SFP (1.25G) modules and 30m of OM4 fibre should be less than $200. Would need a bit of trunking for that "inside" fibre but outside fibre is not that much more

If you must go WiFi then look at some dedicated 5G point to point from Ubiquiti (or even TP-Link).

5 port Gig switches are cheap now, IMO time for a refresh.

Cheers

Stu

BTW Libre office draw is free and excellent for quick sketches others can easily visualise..


the On 30/11/2018 03:11, Kriss Kliegle wrote:

SDR-iq's #2  and #3 on one netbook are now stutter withing my own LAN from select desktops. If I do some web browsing, it clears up for the most part. Sometimes it comes back, but not as bad.
Doesn't matter what bandwidth started or switched to.
The SDRPlay #2 on a neighboring netbook in the repeater shed operating at 1MHz bandwidth runs just fine from the client machine through all the network pieces


Artist rendition of my network currently:     (The ==> and <== below are hardwired connections)

Netbook  ==>        5 port 10/100Mbbs Switch ==>  DD-WRT Router(Repeater Bridge)  ==>  Verizon ISP Router  <==   Net Geat 10/100Mbbs Switch   <==    Client W7 Intel i5-3350P CPU @3.10GHz
in repeater           2 SDR netbooks, Dstar Laptop            WAP and switch in barn                             in house                         in office/shack feeding
shed      ADSB Pie and SDR-iq #1
             SDRPlay#1 Netbook

The XYL's old i3 laptop runs the same server just fine, no stuttering at all.
XYL's laptop is hardwired right to Verizon Router, but still has to go thru the same DD-WRT modified Lyksys Routerin barn and the switch in shed.

Can folks outside my LAN access my SDR-iq #2 and #3 and see how it behaves?

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Attachments:

* Screenshot_2018_11_29_214035.png
<https://SDR-Radio.groups.io/g/main/attachment/44273/0>
* SDR Console tmp.txt
<https://SDR-Radio.groups.io/g/main/attachment/44273/1>

herbk@...
 

Kriss:
Logfile attached. No stuttering detected this AM. Currently listening to 75 meters and
clean.

I am having the stuttering issues on my LAN / Server. The log looks very similar to you and I am struggling
to figure it out and the significance of our constant restarts:

Radio V3Server> Flow control: sleep 5 ms (restart timing)

All my clients affected: laptops, WIFI, ethernet, desktops.
73
Herb

Kriss Kliegle
 

Looks like my 'drawing' got destroyed in the formating. The only part of the complex network I have that isn't common is the switch used in the office to feed the Raspberry Pie ADSB RXR server, SDR-iq #1 and SDRPlay #1 server, and my desktop PC. That's an old Net Gear 10/100. There was not much traffic through it, just occasional ADSB traffic, and the SDR-iq#1/SDRPlay #1 server was not in use at the time. 

The DD-WRT modified router is there to give me an WAP out in barn (shop), so the wifi part really isn't in use now that I ran Cat6 over to repeater shed. I just use the ports as a switch for now.

Will spend more time later today, barn door folks are due to arrive any minute...

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Stu C
 

I'm beginning to wonder if this is Spectre/Meltdown mitigation hitting streaming performance.
If so would differ between CPU's and BIOS's.
If you can, update your BIOS on any Server and Clients where stutter is seen, see if it affect anything.

https://www.infoq.com/news/2018/01/intel-spectre-performance

BTW Kriss sort of got your lustration but had to hold my head sideways for the post-email-group formatting.
Good luck with the barn door, hope the horse is still there.

On 30/11/2018 12:55, Kriss Kliegle wrote:
Looks like my 'drawing' got destroyed in the formating. The only part of the complex network I have that isn't common is the switch used in the office to feed the Raspberry Pie ADSB RXR server, SDR-iq #1 and SDRPlay #1 server, and my desktop PC. That's an old Net Gear 10/100. There was not much traffic through it, just occasional ADSB traffic, and the SDR-iq#1/SDRPlay #1 server was not in use at the time.

The DD-WRT modified router is there to give me an WAP out in barn (shop), so the wifi part really isn't in use now that I ran Cat6 over to repeater shed. I just use the ports as a switch for now.

Will spend more time later today, barn door folks are due to arrive any minute...

73 Kriss KA1GJU

herbk@...
 

I see this issue has now crossed several messages and seems fairly widespread.
That being said, there seem to be many not affected so that adds to some frustration.

I would have hoped the log files might contain some clues, but apparently not.

I could replace my entire network but have no assurance this is
truly a "network only" issue. I think my best course of action is to bring in a new 
PC and configure the server and see if that end has any effect. Having three clients all
behaving near the same, at least I may be able to isolate / eliminate one variable at
a time. And it's less timely and expensive that replacing an Asus high end router and reconfiguring our
entire network, again with no positive that these hours / $$ would resolve the issue.

In case it might get looked at again, attached is the latest screen shot. 
It would be bitter sweet to have to run up a white flag.
But...….

73

Paul Abernethy (G8HGG)
 

Hi Kriss,

Accessed your SDR-Iq #2 and #3 at 16:30 GMT today 2nd Dec.  Signals on 3.75MHz clear of stutter on #2, occasional breaks random on #3. 

 

Regards

Paul

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kriss Kliegle
Sent: 30 November 2018 03:11
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] ARGH! My stuttering is back on the SDR-iq's via remote

 

SDR-iq's #2  and #3 on one netbook are now stutter withing my own LAN from select desktops. If I do some web browsing, it clears up for the most part. Sometimes it comes back, but not as bad.
Doesn't matter what bandwidth started or switched to.
The SDRPlay #2 on a neighboring netbook in the repeater shed operating at 1MHz bandwidth runs just fine from the client machine through all the network pieces


Artist rendition of my network currently:     (The ==> and <== below are hardwired connections)

Netbook  ==>        5 port 10/100Mbbs Switch                ==>  DD-WRT Router(Repeater Bridge)  ==>  Verizon ISP Router  <==   Net Geat 10/100Mbbs Switch   <==    Client W7 Intel i5-3350P CPU @3.10GHz
in repeater           2 SDR netbooks, Dstar Laptop                           WAP and switch in barn                             in house                         in office/shack feeding
shed                                                                                                                                                                                                       ADSB Pie and SDR-iq #1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   SDRPlay#1 Netbook
 
The XYL's old i3 laptop runs the same server just fine, no stuttering at all.
XYL's laptop is hardwired right to Verizon Router, but still has to go thru the same DD-WRT modified Lyksys Routerin barn and the switch in shed.

Can folks outside my LAN access my SDR-iq #2 and #3 and see how it behaves?

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Attachments:

 

Kriss Kliegle
 

OK, did a quick 'reconfig' test and eliminated one 10/100 switch and a DD-WRT Router and came up with the following network as drawn below.

From Client PC#1 in barn to SDR-iq #2 OR SDR-iq #3, I get stuttering on all bandwidths. Opening a browser and placing SDRC in background helps but eventually stutters (withing ~10 sec).

From client PC#1 in barn to AirSpyHF+ (XLY's laptop in house) I get stuttering on all bandwidths

But... from Client PC#1 to SDRPlay#1 or SDR-iq #1 everything works as it should, even on max bandwidths!

Client PC #2 (in house) exhibits the EXACT same issues as Client PC #1

The coup de grâce is from the Laptop running the AirSpyHF+ server, SDRC has NO stuttering on ANY server w/in my network!

Reports from outside users, including myself, that this doesn't happen for WAN clients.

NOTE: If a 10/100 switch is placed back in line out in repeater shed allowing both SDR-iq #2 & #3 netbook and another netbook running just SDRPlay #2, The SDR-iq's both stutter, but the SDRPlay works 100% , even at max bandwidth! This switch and extra server were removed from the network for the test, and is now back in line.

Should I find a new server netbook/laptop/NEC?  The NEC's look interesting, since some run off 12Vdc, and I have a backup battery bank for the repeaters out there.

73 Kriss KA1GJU



herbk@...
 

Can anyone help with this? 
I have every client in my LAN enjoying stutter-free audio and control with G4ELI server. 
It simply works, no issue. In all clients: Desktop, Laptop, WiFi.

Many other servers present excessive stuttering audio and control latency, some of which are completely unusable. INCLUDING my own effort with the Airspy HF+ with V3 server in the LAN.

Any way to cut through this and start looking to explain? 
My apology if this exposes my lack of networking (or other) knowledge.
But I simply don't have what it takes to continue to resolve without anything
further.

73
Herb

Kriss Kliegle
 

Welcome to my hell.
My most powerful computers, the two desktops, exhibit this problem within my LAN as explained previously, but yet an old i3 laptop works just fine on all servers w/in my LAN. All are Windows 7 variants, and hardwired.
Strange thing is the SDRPlays I have work fine, even at 1MHz bandwidth, from the desktops. Two of the SDR-iq’s and the AirSpyHF+ don’t play well with the desktops, but work OK via WAN users.

BTW, the AirspyHF+ wouldn’t work as a server at all on my netbooks that handles the SDRPlay just fine. So I moved it to my XYL’s i3 laptop.

Puzzling this issue.

73 Kriss KA1GJU 

Oidar
 

Hi Kriss

Your problem seem related to general IP and networking issues, rather than Simons software, just some simple tips below based on what we know of your network.

Do you use a IPv4 or IPv6 network, if the answer is v4 continue below.
   
    If you use DHCP, try to give all servers static IP addresses you may even try giving the clients static addresses.
    Have you checked and double checked the network settings on each and every server and client, such as gateway, IP adresses and subnets?
    Do you see any anomalies using a networking diagnostics tool such as NETSTAT at each server or client?
    Have you tried swapping place of computers or switches in the network, and noticed any difference on the behavior?

//Mats

Kriss Kliegle
 

Yes, IPV4 network, all servers have a fixed IP (won't work outside via the WAN without them)
I even removed a switch and a LynkSys (DD-WRT flashed) router and problem still remained (see diagram above in msg #44315) between Client computer #1 and SDR-iq Server #2 & #3. Still the same behavior, but if I connect to any of my SDRplays, (SDRPlay #2 is not shown on the above diagram since it was removed for testing) no issues what so ever going through the same series of switches at 1 MHz bandwidth.

I do have long runs of CAT6 from house to barn ~250' and from barn to repeater shed ~150', but as previously mentioned some SDR's work fine and some not so good via select clients. I spend most of my computer time using my XYL's 10 yr old Laptop, the one running the AirspyHF+ server. That old machine accesses all my SDR's just fine, go figure!

Will try the NETSTAT diagnostics this AM....

73 Kriss KA1GJU

herbk@...
 

Kriss:
Your SDR-iq #2 and SDR-iq #3 both play well on my primary (client and server) desktop BUT DO NOT play on any
clients (desktop, laptop, wifi, or networked ethernet) in my LAN. The stuttering and latency make not a word intelligible most
of the time. 
Yet G4ELI is stutter-free and latency free on ALL CLIENTS regardless of individual specs in the same LAN. 

Of course, I could continue to look for additional servers that do/do not play on the clients but I don't think that
would tell me anything additional. I do have KA1JGU and G4ELI logfiles saved on all these machines and have gone through them
and note the difference being.

1) CUDA initialization fails on several machines (I attribute this to the graphics capability of the different machines).

2) After confirming buffering specifications (thresholds and limits) and flow control sleep 5 ms (restart timing) , the clients never
get to the "execution state = continuous" and play but and simply go into "constant restarts" occasionally providing short bursts of readable signal, sometimes never.

I assume this info in the logfile doesn't tell me much.

I cant recreate your setup here as my LAN is far less complex: the Xfinity Gateway/Modem operating bridge mode to the ASUS
RT-AC88U wireless router serving various including two gigabit switches down-the-line. Typical speed tests from IPv4 and IPv6 return 230 Mbps down and 12 Mbps up on the LAN.

I have the Cloud IQ ethernet based SDR which plays with no issues to any / all clients on the LAN. As I recall, I noticed  issues started when I wanted to put the Airspy HF+ (non-ethernet SDR) available to my clients. Or at least, that was my
first encounter.

Sorry I don't have more to offer.

73
Herb

Kriss Kliegle
 

What suffix shall I use w/the Netstat cmd?

Kriss

Kriss Kliegle
 

"Netsat -e " of the problematic SDR-iq #2 & #3 server:

Paul Mclaren MM0ZBH
 

Kriss,

I am probably a bit late on the show with this but have you tried some captures with Wireshark?

You should be able to get a good idea of the network packets being exchanged with the server for a good client and a bad client.  It is time stamped so you can compare like for like you using the filters.  It might not give you an immediate answer but it could give you some evidence of what is happening if it is a network issue. 

Netstat will show what is happening at a point in time but as this seems to be intermittent then you need something for a longer time span.

Regards

Paul

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 at 13:46, Kriss Kliegle <kliegle@...> wrote:
"Netsat -e " of the problematic SDR-iq #2 & #3 server:

C. van Ravenswaaij
 

Kriss,

Are you certain that there is only one DHCP server active in your network? If you use any, that is.
I have had strange client behaviour in my network, until I found out that, somehow, one of my AP configured routers had it’s DHCP function (re)activated after a firmware update. 

Good luck,

Cornel


Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 8 dec. 2018 om 13:36 heeft Kriss Kliegle <kliegle@...> het volgende geschreven:

Yes, IPV4 network, all servers have a fixed IP (won't work outside via the WAN without them)
I even removed a switch and a LynkSys (DD-WRT flashed) router and problem still remained (see diagram above in msg #44315) between Client computer #1 and SDR-iq Server #2 & #3. Still the same behavior, but if I connect to any of my SDRplays, (SDRPlay #2 is not shown on the above diagram since it was removed for testing) no issues what so ever going through the same series of switches at 1 MHz bandwidth.

I do have long runs of CAT6 from house to barn ~250' and from barn to repeater shed ~150', but as previously mentioned some SDR's work fine and some not so good via select clients. I spend most of my computer time using my XYL's 10 yr old Laptop, the one running the AirspyHF+ server. That old machine accesses all my SDR's just fine, go figure!

Will try the NETSTAT diagnostics this AM....

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Paul Mclaren MM0ZBH
 

Cornel, assuming Kriss is running fixed up addressed across all devices that should not be an issue as no DHCP lease requests will be sent.  In theory!

Kriss - another network basic unless you have done it already run a ping 192.168.x.x -t from each client to the server and see if the response rates vary widely and correlate to periods of poor performance.   Replace 192.168.x.x with the IP address of the server.  If it shows something significant in the way of delays you could strip things back further removing devices from the network till you find the cause.   It might show nothing but it will start to prove the stability of your network.

Regards

Paul

On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 at 15:16, C. van Ravenswaaij <cortec@...> wrote:
Kriss,

Are you certain that there is only one DHCP server active in your network? If you use any, that is.
I have had strange client behaviour in my network, until I found out that, somehow, one of my AP configured routers had it’s DHCP function (re)activated after a firmware update. 

Good luck,

Cornel


Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 8 dec. 2018 om 13:36 heeft Kriss Kliegle <kliegle@...> het volgende geschreven:

Yes, IPV4 network, all servers have a fixed IP (won't work outside via the WAN without them)
I even removed a switch and a LynkSys (DD-WRT flashed) router and problem still remained (see diagram above in msg #44315) between Client computer #1 and SDR-iq Server #2 & #3. Still the same behavior, but if I connect to any of my SDRplays, (SDRPlay #2 is not shown on the above diagram since it was removed for testing) no issues what so ever going through the same series of switches at 1 MHz bandwidth.

I do have long runs of CAT6 from house to barn ~250' and from barn to repeater shed ~150', but as previously mentioned some SDR's work fine and some not so good via select clients. I spend most of my computer time using my XYL's 10 yr old Laptop, the one running the AirspyHF+ server. That old machine accesses all my SDR's just fine, go figure!

Will try the NETSTAT diagnostics this AM....

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Joe Puma
 

Have you tried rtl_tcp? I don’t have faith in other IQ streamers. Rtl_tcp been the best low latency IQ server I ever used and I’ve tried them all. Except Simons latest offering of his server. I just haven’t had the need to fix what’s not broken. 

Joe



On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:36 AM, Kriss Kliegle <kliegle@...> wrote:

Yes, IPV4 network, all servers have a fixed IP (won't work outside via the WAN without them)
I even removed a switch and a LynkSys (DD-WRT flashed) router and problem still remained (see diagram above in msg #44315) between Client computer #1 and SDR-iq Server #2 & #3. Still the same behavior, but if I connect to any of my SDRplays, (SDRPlay #2 is not shown on the above diagram since it was removed for testing) no issues what so ever going through the same series of switches at 1 MHz bandwidth.

I do have long runs of CAT6 from house to barn ~250' and from barn to repeater shed ~150', but as previously mentioned some SDR's work fine and some not so good via select clients. I spend most of my computer time using my XYL's 10 yr old Laptop, the one running the AirspyHF+ server. That old machine accesses all my SDR's just fine, go figure!

Will try the NETSTAT diagnostics this AM....

73 Kriss KA1GJU

Kriss Kliegle
 

The two servers that were acting up were not allowing me to 'ping' them, got that fixed and still stutters from Client PC. Although opening up Chrome brower reduces the stuttering to where its readable, but still there.
Going to eliminate the switch on Client PC for test now...

73 Kriss KA1GJU