|
with the
option to discard the highest /
lowest x% of FFT bins.
do you mean staying within the useable bandwidth?
For example, a 2MHz sampling rate for a NetSDR will allow display of
an FFT of only 1.6MHz bandwidth in SpectraVue, because the top and
bottom 200kHz roll off in amplitude from their true values.
SDR Console allows viewing of the full 2MHz in that case (if I remember
correctly), so a continuum power derived from the full 2MHz would be
inaccurate.   Thank you for catching that.
Nick
At 06:32 2022-03-20, Simon Brown wrote:
For now I’ll use the FFT data
for the waterfall as the rate and overlap and windowing is
user-configurable. There are slight corrections that should be made for
the Windowing (Hann, Hamming etc.).
Also the option to discard the highest / lowest x% of FFT bins.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf
Of sm6fhzSent: 19 March 2022 19:25To: main@...:
Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi.I took the liberty to collect the specification points we have been
throwing around here in this thread for a week or so, in one bulleted
list.I hope it makes it easier to have all of them in one place.I also
added a few new ones that I came to think about at the end.
The function should be in an separate, dockable, window as most other
function in SDR Console are
The function should be possible to run in parallel with the regular
spectrum and waterfall displays
The function shall measure and display the total power in an defined band
width e.g. the full sampled band width as a function of time. The band
width could be possible to set to a more narrow value, if possible to
implement.
The time scale (number of samples per second) shall be possible to set
from "real time" to monitoring the sky pass an antenna beam
over several hours (24?)
It should be possible to set the post detection integration time
(smoothing)
The vertical scale (level) should be possible to adjust from 0.05 dB per
division to say 10 dB per division
The horizontal scale (time) could run left to right or right to left to
your preference (optional)
It shall be possible to save the data to file (.csv) if you like, for
post processing in Matlab or Excel
Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the sampled BW
and to set where this BW shall be in frequency (within the sampled
range).
The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual indicated value
at its position in the graph. Where it shall show can be discussed, but
close to the cursor would be one possibility. There are probably many
alternatives where to show the number.
Include a "Screenshot" camera in the window, if possible. It
would be a practical feature.
Some kind of "Time markers" in the graph, similar to the ones
in SDRC waterfall.
Â
We have probably missed a few anyway, but the better specified it is from
the start the less work, and rework, it will create.Save on time and
effort. The programmer needs to get a lesser work load :-)When a Beta is
available I am ready to and more than happy to start making tests.73 /
Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or
problems.
_._,_._,_
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#66125) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This
Topic | New Topic
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+
Please use
https://forum.sdr-radio.com for all:
* bug reports
* questions.
This is the unofficial support for SDR-Radio.com software.
RSS feed is
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/app.php/feed
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
|
|
|
Simon Brown
And,  For now I’ll use the FFT data for the waterfall as the rate and overlap and windowing is user-configurable. There are slight corrections that should be made for the Windowing (Hann, Hamming etc.).  Also the option to discard the highest / lowest x% of FFT bins.  Simon Brown, G4ELI https://www.sdr-radio.com Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of sm6fhz
Sent: 19 March 2022 19:25
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hi.
I took the liberty to collect the specification points we have been throwing around here in this thread for a week or so, in one bulleted list.
I hope it makes it easier to have all of them in one place.
I also added a few new ones that I came to think about at the end. - The function should be in an separate, dockable, window as most other function in SDR Console are
- The function should be possible to run in parallel with the regular spectrum and waterfall displays
- The function shall measure and display the total power in an defined band width e.g. the full sampled band width as a function of time. The band width could be possible to set to a more narrow value, if possible to implement.
- The time scale (number of samples per second) shall be possible to set from "real time" to monitoring the sky pass an antenna beam over several hours (24?)
- It should be possible to set the post detection integration time (smoothing)
- The vertical scale (level) should be possible to adjust from 0.05 dB per division to say 10 dB per division
- The horizontal scale (time) could run left to right or right to left to your preference (optional)
- It shall be possible to save the data to file (.csv) if you like, for post processing in Matlab or Excel
- Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the sampled BW and to set where this BW shall be in frequency (within the sampled range).
- The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual indicated value at its position in the graph. Where it shall show can be discussed, but close to the cursor would be one possibility. There are probably many alternatives where to show the number.
- Include a "Screenshot" camera in the window, if possible. It would be a practical feature.
- Some kind of "Time markers" in the graph, similar to the ones in SDRC waterfall.
We have probably missed a few anyway, but the better specified it is from the start the less work, and rework, it will create.
Save on time and effort. The programmer needs to get a lesser work load :-)
When a Beta is available I am ready to and more than happy to start making tests.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ -- - + - + -
|
|
|
If sampled with 2. 688 in pluto also downscale to anything smaller Be it 500 kc (transponder bw) Down to 1hz (or calculated /referenced down to that fine resolution) Could be very useful to measure channel power etc
Hi.
I took the liberty to collect the specification points we have been throwing around here in this thread for a week or so, in one bulleted list.
I hope it makes it easier to have all of them in one place.
I also added a few new ones that I came to think about at the end.
- The function should be in an separate, dockable, window as most other function in SDR Console are
- The function should be possible to run in parallel with the regular spectrum and waterfall displays
- The function shall measure and display the total power in an defined band width e.g. the full sampled band width as a function of time. The band width could be possible to set to a more narrow value, if possible to implement.
- The time scale (number of samples per second) shall be possible to set from "real time" to monitoring the sky pass an antenna beam over several hours (24?)
- It should be possible to set the post detection integration time (smoothing)
- The vertical scale (level) should be possible to adjust from 0.05 dB per division to say 10 dB per division
- The horizontal scale (time) could run left to right or right to left to your preference (optional)
- It shall be possible to save the data to file (.csv) if you like, for post processing in Matlab or Excel
- Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the sampled BW and to set where this BW shall be in frequency (within the sampled range).
- The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual indicated value at its position in the graph. Where it shall show can be discussed, but close to the cursor would be one possibility. There are probably many alternatives where to show the number.
- Include a "Screenshot" camera in the window, if possible. It would be a practical feature.
- Some kind of "Time markers" in the graph, similar to the ones in SDRC waterfall.
Â
We have probably missed a few anyway, but the better specified it is from the start the less work, and rework, it will create.
Save on time and effort. The programmer needs to get a lesser work load :-)
When a Beta is available I am ready to and more than happy to start making tests.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
Hi. I took the liberty to collect the specification points we have been throwing around here in this thread for a week or so, in one bulleted list. I hope it makes it easier to have all of them in one place. I also added a few new ones that I came to think about at the end.
- The function should be in an separate, dockable, window as most other function in SDR Console are
- The function should be possible to run in parallel with the regular spectrum and waterfall displays
- The function shall measure and display the total power in an defined band width e.g. the full sampled band width as a function of time. The band width could be possible to set to a more narrow value, if possible to implement.
- The time scale (number of samples per second) shall be possible to set from "real time" to monitoring the sky pass an antenna beam over several hours (24?)
- It should be possible to set the post detection integration time (smoothing)
- The vertical scale (level) should be possible to adjust from 0.05 dB per division to say 10 dB per division
- The horizontal scale (time) could run left to right or right to left to your preference (optional)
- It shall be possible to save the data to file (.csv) if you like, for post processing in Matlab or Excel
- Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the sampled BW and to set where this BW shall be in frequency (within the sampled range).
- The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual indicated value at its position in the graph. Where it shall show can be discussed, but close to the cursor would be one possibility. There are probably many alternatives where to show the number.
- Include a "Screenshot" camera in the window, if possible. It would be a practical feature.
- Some kind of "Time markers" in the graph, similar to the ones in SDRC waterfall.
Â
We have probably missed a few anyway, but the better specified it is from the start the less work, and rework, it will create. Save on time and effort. The programmer needs to get a lesser work load :-) When a Beta is available I am ready to and more than happy to start making tests. 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
Great news, Simon, and glad that Moe was able to help. He must have
a better memory, or more organized files than I ever had.
It would be wonderful if you could document the algorithm that you will
use for your realization of the continuum function, even in the most
basic fashion, for those who are curious about what goes on behind the
curtain.
Nick
At 16:04 2022-03-19, Simon Brown wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
So,
Spoke with Moe, I now know all I must do when I restart
programming.
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Simon BrownSent: 17 March 2022 16:07To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.ioSubject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum
mode
Â
Hi Nick,
Â
I’ll ask Moe.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Nick Hall-Patch via groups.ioSent: 17
March 2022 16:05To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io;
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
That would be my understanding also, and easy to test in SpectraVue.I've
just played back a NetSDR file in Continuum mode, 1300kHz span of the MW
band, using 2048 point FFT and 2097152 point FFTs.Except that the 2048
point playback zips by very quickly (unsurprisingly), it jitters around
-32 dBm, while the 2097152 point playback is more sedate in speed, and
with very little change in the -32 dBm value, again unsurprisingly.The
"jitter" is presumably real, as the power level of individual
signals in the night-time MW band is constantly changing.If the
commenting in SpectraVue's code is anything like what was in Moe's
SDR14xApp, and CuteSDR, he probably tells you what he's doing
right there.  Finding it might be another thing.NickAt 13:18
2022-03-17, Tony_AD0VC wrote:
- I wouldn't think that the RBW matters for this. Just sum all X bins.
If RBW is smaller then X will be bigger and there will be less power in
each bin. Sum of the bins will be the same for a given total
bandwidth.Tony
- From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> on behalf of Simon Brown
<simon@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:45 AM To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode  Typo. Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X
(values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
-  What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when
these X bins are used? Simon Brown,
G4ELIhttps://www.sdr-radio.com
 From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Simon Brown Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39 To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode So, Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values
in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
-  What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when
these X bins are used? Simon Brown,
G4ELIhttps://www.sdr-radio.com
 From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y Sent: 17 March 2022 09:49 To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hello Simon, I really
appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP
and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs
as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!  Let’s get it working
and then I have some other ideas. This will be really useful. 73Â
Conrad PA5YÂ From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io Sent: 15 March 2022
06:42 To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hi, That’s fine. I
can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a
docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution. Simon
Brown,
G4ELIhttps://www.sdr-radio.com
 From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of sm6fhz Sent: 14 March 2022 21:48 To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hi. Here is an early
message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
-- - + - + -Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.-- - + - + -Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.-- - + - + -Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
- Nick Hall-PatchVictoria, BCCanada
--
- + - + -
Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
--
- + - + -
Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
|
|
|
Simon Brown
So, Â Spoke with Moe, I now know all I must do when I restart programming. Â Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon Brown
Sent: 17 March 2022 16:07
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hi Nick,  I’ll ask Moe.    That would be my understanding also, and easy to test in SpectraVue.
I've just played back a NetSDR file in Continuum mode, 1300kHz span of the MW band, using 2048 point FFT and 2097152 point FFTs.
Except that the 2048 point playback zips by very quickly (unsurprisingly), it jitters around -32 dBm, while the 2097152 point playback is more sedate in speed, and with very little change in the -32 dBm value, again unsurprisingly.
The "jitter" is presumably real, as the power level of individual signals in the night-time MW band is constantly changing.
If the commenting in SpectraVue's code is anything like what was in Moe's SDR14xApp, and CuteSDR, he probably tells you what he's doing right there.  Finding it might be another thing.
Nick
At 13:18 2022-03-17, Tony_AD0VC wrote: I wouldn't think that the RBW matters for this. Just sum all X bins. If RBW is smaller then X will be bigger and there will be less power in each bin. Sum of the bins will be the same for a given total bandwidth.
Tony
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown <simon@...> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:45 AM To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Typo.
Â
Given: - Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon Brown Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
So,
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y Sent: 17 March 2022 09:49 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io Sent: 15 March 2022 06:42 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of sm6fhz Sent: 14 March 2022 21:48 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi. Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode: https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
--
-- - + - + -
|
|
|
Simon Brown
Hi Nick,  I’ll ask Moe.  Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Hall-Patch via groups.io
Sent: 17 March 2022 16:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io; main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode That would be my understanding also, and easy to test in SpectraVue.
I've just played back a NetSDR file in Continuum mode, 1300kHz span of the MW band, using 2048 point FFT and 2097152 point FFTs.
Except that the 2048 point playback zips by very quickly (unsurprisingly), it jitters around -32 dBm, while the 2097152 point playback is more sedate in speed, and with very little change in the -32 dBm value, again unsurprisingly.
The "jitter" is presumably real, as the power level of individual signals in the night-time MW band is constantly changing.
If the commenting in SpectraVue's code is anything like what was in Moe's SDR14xApp, and CuteSDR, he probably tells you what he's doing right there.  Finding it might be another thing.
Nick
At 13:18 2022-03-17, Tony_AD0VC wrote:
I wouldn't think that the RBW matters for this. Just sum all X bins. If RBW is smaller then X will be bigger and there will be less power in each bin. Sum of the bins will be the same for a given total bandwidth.
Tony
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown <simon@...> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:45 AM To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Typo.
Â
Given: - Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon Brown Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
So,
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y Sent: 17 March 2022 09:49 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io Sent: 15 March 2022 06:42 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io > On Behalf Of sm6fhz Sent: 14 March 2022 21:48 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi. Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode: https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
-- - + - + -
|
|
|
That would be my understanding also, and easy to test in
SpectraVue.
I've just played back a NetSDR file in Continuum mode, 1300kHz span of
the MW band, using 2048 point FFT and 2097152 point FFTs.
Except that the 2048 point playback zips by very quickly
(unsurprisingly), it jitters around -32 dBm, while the 2097152 point
playback is more sedate in speed, and with very little change in the -32
dBm value, again unsurprisingly.
The "jitter" is presumably real, as the power level of
individual signals in the night-time MW band is constantly
changing.
If the commenting in SpectraVue's code is anything like what was in Moe's
SDR14xApp, and CuteSDR, he probably tells you what he's doing right
there.  Finding it might be another thing.
Nick
At 13:18 2022-03-17, Tony_AD0VC wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I wouldn't think that the RBW
matters for this. Just sum all X bins. If RBW is smaller then X will be
bigger and there will be less power in each bin. Sum of the bins will be
the same for a given total bandwidth.
Tony
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on
behalf of Simon Brown <simon@...> Sent: Thursday,
March 17, 2022 4:45 AM To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio]
Continuum mode
Â
Typo.
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X
(values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are
used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Simon Brown Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio]
Continuum mode
Â
So,
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in
dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are
used?
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y Sent: 17 March 2022 09:49
To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have
SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with
Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io Sent: 15 March
2022 06:42 To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine
tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct
solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
<main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
> On Behalf Of sm6fhz Sent: 14 March 2022 21:48
To:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi. Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for
the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
- + - + -
Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
--
- + - + -
Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
--
- + - + -
Please useÂ
https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/Â when posting questions or
problems.
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
|
|
|
I wouldn't think that the RBW matters for this. Just sum all X bins. If RBW is smaller then X will be bigger and there will be less power in each bin. Sum of the bins will be the same for a given total bandwidth.
Tony
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown <simon@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:45 AM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Typo.
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Simon Brown
Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
So,
Â
Given:
- Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
Â
What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?
Â
Â
Â
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
Â
Hi.
Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
--
--
- + - + -
|
|
|
Figure one signal is present, a unit gain (0 dBfs)
sinewave. Without shaping it will appear in one or two bins
ideally. You take the power level for all bins within the
bandwidth Y and sum their power, not voltage, of course. It's
independent of the X bandwidth. Scaling would be the same as you
use for the spectrum display.
Or take the FFT array of values, multiply each cell by your
calculated IF filter shape, pick a bundle of values around the
center of the filter to get a nice power of two bin count, take
reverse FFT, pseudo power = I^2 + Q^2, Nominally ir should have
scaling to make that come out as 0 dBfs for that single sinewave
signal. Then the real world should sort of fall out of what you
have with no further work. (Yes, I am fixated on I^2 + Q^2 pseudo
power.)
{O.-}
On 20220317 03:45:40, Simon Brown
wrote:
Typo.
Â
Given:
- Center frequency &
bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X (values in
dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth =
Y Hz
Â
What’s
the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins
are used?
Â
Â
Â
So,
Â
Given:
- Center frequency &
bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth =
Y Hz
Â
What’s
the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins
are used?
Â
Â
Â
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding
this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the
past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs
as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some
other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s
fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine
tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is
the correct solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
Â
Hi.
Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative
short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
--
--
- + - + -
|
|
|
Simon Brown
Typo. Â Given: - Center frequency & bandwidth with have a count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
 What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?  Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon Brown
Sent: 17 March 2022 10:39
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode So,  Given: - Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
 What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?    Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!  Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.  This will be really useful.  73  Conrad PA5Y   Hi,  That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.  Simon Brown, G4ELI https://www.sdr-radio.com   Hi.
Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
--
-- - + - + -
|
|
|
Simon Brown
So,  Given: - Center frequency & bandwidth è Count of FFT bins = X (values in dBm)
- Resolution bandwidth = Y Hz
 What’s the formula for the actual continuum value when these X bins are used?  Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y
Sent: 17 March 2022 09:49
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!  Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.  This will be really useful.  73  Conrad PA5Y   Hi,  That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.  Simon Brown, G4ELI https://www.sdr-radio.com   Hi.
Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
-- - + - + -
|
|
|
Hello Simon, I really appreciate you adding this feature. I do have SpectraVue and an SDR-IP and in the past like Charles I used SDRC with Perseus and the IQ outputs as inputs for SpectraVue. Very cumbersome!
Â
Let’s get it working and then I have some other ideas.
Â
This will be really useful.
Â
73
Â
Conrad PA5Y
Â
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io
Sent: 15 March 2022 06:42
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Continuum mode
Â
Hi,
Â
That’s fine. I can get almost all work done, then there’s fine tuning. I think a docking window like the Signal History is the correct solution.
Â
Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com
Â
Â
Hi.
Here is an early message (May 2014) with an tentative short-spec for the Continuum Mode:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
--
|
|
|
Heh heh - processing in the frequency domain makes a
lot of this easy. The chief issue is the current FFT resolution
compared the bandwidth you want. The "cheap, quick, and dirty"
solution is sum the power in all the bins within the bandwidth you
want. I suspect using some shaping on that would add a decimal
place to the accuracy as well as more processing demand on the
system.
Now, if you use receivers as the filtering mechanism running a
reverse FFT on that bandwidth (and a little bit more which will be
super close to zero power and gives a power of two number of FFT
steps) gives you time domain I and Q signals. And, I wish SDRC did
this so its S in its SINAD fiddling would not be spoofable, square
I, square Q, sum them together, and take 10 log that power
equivalent. That gives the continuum measurement as well as a very
good S for calculating SINAD ratios. (As Simon curls up in a
corner screaming "I didn't read that! I don't wanna do it!")
(Snarky today Joanne? Yeah, just had the telephone guy come to
deal with noisy phone lines when it gets windy. It was still air.
So, in another half hour the internet vanishes here as the
afternoon winds kick up. This time it's war. A couple days ago the
noise made a telephone consult with my doctor a miserable series
of "say again" and CRACKLE! CRACKLE!
CRACKLE!)
{^_^}
On 20220316 08:33:43, sm6fhz wrote:
Hi.
I would like to add two more points to the short spec for the
Continuum Mode function:
- Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the
sampled BW and to set where this BW shall be in frequency
(within the sampled range).
- The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual
indicated value at it's position in the graph. Where it shall
show can be discussed, but close to the cursor would be one
possibility. There are probably many alternatives where to
show the number.
This is because with the now available very broad band SDR's (e.g.
RX888 etc.) it might be impractical or undesirable to measure over
the entire sampled BW due to spurious signals, unwanted signals or
other limitations.
The cursor reading has earlier proven to be a very practical
feature when using Continuum Mode.
I hope these are feasible functions to implement.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
Hi. I would like to add two more points to the short spec for the Continuum Mode function:
- Possibility to set a smaller BW for the measurement than the sampled BW and to set where this BW shall be in frequency (within the sampled range).
- The cursor (when moved into the plot) to show the actual indicated value at it's position in the graph. Where it shall show can be discussed, but close to the cursor would be one possibility. There are probably many alternatives where to show the number.
This is because with the now available very broad band SDR's (e.g. RX888 etc.) it might be impractical or undesirable to measure over the entire sampled BW due to spurious signals, unwanted signals or other limitations. The cursor reading has earlier proven to be a very practical feature when using Continuum Mode. I hope these are feasible functions to implement. 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
Not at all.
Glad you found the positive saying!
The one I came to think about mirrors the Scandinavian "Jantelagen" and misery and gloom.
Raising a finger of warning, do not indulge!
För mycket skämmer. (Too much spoils it all).
It probably emerges from the tough times when starvation prevailed here.
But sometimes we can be merry as well :-)
But now we are maybe too far off from the topic; Continuum Mode.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
Â
|
|
|
Yep, kind off:
Ju gladare desto bättre.
Or more precisely:
Ju fler desto bättre.
(sorry for butting in)
|
|
|
No problem, Ingolf.  The more the merrier...(is there a
Scandinavian version of that saying?)
73
Nick
At 08:39 2022-03-15, sm6fhz wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Nick.
I am sorry if I hijacked this thread you started.
But the Continuum Mode is very close to my heart and I have been arguing
/ asking / proposing for it since 2014.
It would be a most welcome addition to the great functions in SDR
Console.
Thanks for bringing it up again, Nick!
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada
|
|
|
Nick.
I am sorry if I hijacked this thread you started.
But the Continuum Mode is very close to my heart and I have been arguing / asking / proposing for it since 2014.
It would be a most welcome addition to the great functions in SDR Console.
Thanks for bringing it up again, Nick!
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
Hi.
Yes, a docking window is the preferred solution.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
|
|
|
