Antennas: Best Mini-Whip ??


John Dusek
 

Hi -

I am a shortwave listener (and Ham, but not active for now).

We recently sold our home and are in rented accommodation for a while.  This means not having the same freedom to put up a high EFLW or other wire design, and not having a controlled (fenced) area to use an external magnetic loop.

Can anyone recommend a mini-whip model or seller that has been used and proven before? 

Despite the relatively cheap prices, I don't just want to order one off eBay and hope that it works, given I will need to mount and ground it in a stealthy way.

If anyone has a suggestion, please let me know.

Many thanks,

John - W3JED


Jeff Kelly
 

I have had decent results with the MLA-30Plus loop antenna and they are pretty directional.

Jeff
K2SDR

On Sep 15, 2021, at 4:38 PM, John Dusek <johndusek3@...> wrote:

Hi -

I am a shortwave listener (and Ham, but not active for now).

We recently sold our home and are in rented accommodation for a while.  This means not having the same freedom to put up a high EFLW or other wire design, and not having a controlled (fenced) area to use an external magnetic loop.

Can anyone recommend a mini-whip model or seller that has been used and proven before? 

Despite the relatively cheap prices, I don't just want to order one off eBay and hope that it works, given I will need to mount and ground it in a stealthy way.

If anyone has a suggestion, please let me know.

Many thanks,

John - W3JED


d_ziolkowski
 

John check out


I have an H800. works well, very low profile

Dan KC2STA

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 4:38 PM John Dusek <johndusek3@...> wrote:
Hi -

I am a shortwave listener (and Ham, but not active for now).

We recently sold our home and are in rented accommodation for a while.  This means not having the same freedom to put up a high EFLW or other wire design, and not having a controlled (fenced) area to use an external magnetic loop.

Can anyone recommend a mini-whip model or seller that has been used and proven before? 

Despite the relatively cheap prices, I don't just want to order one off eBay and hope that it works, given I will need to mount and ground it in a stealthy way.

If anyone has a suggestion, please let me know.

Many thanks,

John - W3JED



--
Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX


Roger Need
 

The MiniWhip only works well if outside and a long ways from your home.  Inside they just pickup noise.

For inside listening a quality magnetic loop is your best option. 

Roger


Kriss Kliegle KA1GJU
 

Or just find a server near your QTH and not listen to local QRM:

http://onairv3.sdrspace.com/onair-v3.xml

There used to be at least one in TX as I recall.

73 Kriss KA1GJU
Home of the SDRC Super Station Servers in NH, USA


Brent Seres/ VE3CUS
 

Or do you a a friend nearby that would let you install an RX and antenna? When we had our cabin in the woods in central Ontario, I had a Yaesu transceiver up there and used the Remotehams software and a DSL link. It worked wonderfully. Good luck!

73
Brent 
VE3CUS 





Chris
 

Here’s a good analysis of the “mini whip”.

https://owenduffy.net/antenna/PA0RDT-MiniWhip/

To summarize, it doesn’t and cannot work the way the designer claimed it did.
The thing itself isn’t an antenna, it uses the feedline as the antenna.
That accounts for it being noisy and relatively deaf.
if you are going to put an antenna high off the ground with a l8mg feedline, just use a decent antenna. Even a random wire will be better than a mini-whip.

For indoor and/of high QRM situations. A receive loop is generally considered a good choice. 
The MLA-30 is popular and inexpensive but there are better offerings out there. The MLA is just a video amplifier chip and not the best design. Cross Country Wireless is very well respected and very reasonably priced. They offer some very good home crew designs but their active antenna components are ideal for building something that has a better chance of family approval when “hanging bits of wire all around the room”.


Tracey Gardner
 

 
And of course the mini-whip being relatively deaf will account for Roelof Bakker PA0RDT hearing the Non-Directional Beacon (NDB) from Easter Island on his mini-whip in his suburban garden.
 
73s Tracey G5VU
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris <Deach01ca@...>
Reply-To: <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
To: <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Sent: 16/09/2021 16:50:02
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Antennas: Best Mini-Whip ??

Here’s a good analysis of the “mini whip”.

https://owenduffy.net/antenna/PA0RDT-MiniWhip/

To summarize, it doesn’t and cannot work the way the designer claimed it did.
The thing itself isn’t an antenna, it uses the feedline as the antenna.
That accounts for it being noisy and relatively deaf.
if you are going to put an antenna high off the ground with a l8mg feedline, just use a decent antenna. Even a random wire will be better than a mini-whip.

For indoor and/of high QRM situations. A receive loop is generally considered a good choice. 
The MLA-30 is popular and inexpensive but there are better offerings out there. The MLA is just a video amplifier chip and not the best design. Cross Country Wireless is very well respected and very reasonably priced. They offer some very good home crew designs but their active antenna components are ideal for building something that has a better chance of family approval when “hanging bits of wire all around the room”.


Pekka Sorjonen
 

Hi John,

Do not believe these "analysis" and quotes of them. Roelof´s MiniWhip is an excellent antenna. I have two of them and I am a very happy user. But maybe I am deaf too. :)
Just pay attention of Roelof´s instructions on how to istall and follow them. 

Best 73´s

Pekka aka PSO Kotka


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 06:50 PM, Chris wrote:
Here’s a good analysis of the “mini whip”.

https://owenduffy.net/antenna/PA0RDT-MiniWhip/

To summarize, it doesn’t and cannot work the way the designer claimed it did.
The thing itself isn’t an antenna, it uses the feedline as the antenna.
That accounts for it being noisy and relatively deaf.
if you are going to put an antenna high off the ground with a l8mg feedline, just use a decent antenna. Even a random wire will be better than a mini-whip.


Tony_AD0VC
 

Sorry, this is just wrong. The mini-whip is a perfectly valid example of an E-field probe antenna. Any analysis that says otherwise is flawed.

Properly constructed and set up, the mini-whip is an excellent omnidirectional receiving antenna. 

Tony
AD0VC


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Chris <Deach01ca@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:50 AM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Antennas: Best Mini-Whip ??
 
Here’s a good analysis of the “mini whip”.

https://owenduffy.net/antenna/PA0RDT-MiniWhip/

To summarize, it doesn’t and cannot work the way the designer claimed it did.
The thing itself isn’t an antenna, it uses the feedline as the antenna.
That accounts for it being noisy and relatively deaf.
if you are going to put an antenna high off the ground with a l8mg feedline, just use a decent antenna. Even a random wire will be better than a mini-whip.

For indoor and/of high QRM situations. A receive loop is generally considered a good choice. 
The MLA-30 is popular and inexpensive but there are better offerings out there. The MLA is just a video amplifier chip and not the best design. Cross Country Wireless is very well respected and very reasonably priced. They offer some very good home crew designs but their active antenna components are ideal for building something that has a better chance of family approval when “hanging bits of wire all around the room”.


Siegfried Jackstien
 

and with some inline chokes at feeding point or a bit below only the active antenna is receiving and not the feedline

dg9bfc sigi


Brent Seres/ VE3CUS
 

I also tried the mini-whip and was disappointed.  Although it might not work in your situation,  I have a LZ1AQ active 1 meter loop which works very well, especially on the lower bands.

Brent 
VE3CUS 





michel soldevila
 

The mini-whip is a very good antenna on VLF and LF !
I built two of them and it's my favourite antenna from 20 kHz to 2MHz. The antenna is mounted outside 8 m above ground.
Michel (F1GOC)


Gedas
 

Have you been able to do any A/B tests of it compared to any other antennas?

Gedas, W8BYA EN70JT

Gallery at http://w8bya.com (under repair)
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
On 9/16/2021 1:49 PM, michel soldevila wrote:

The mini-whip is a very good antenna on VLF and LF !
I built two of them and it's my favourite antenna from 20 kHz to 2MHz. The antenna is mounted outside 8 m above ground.
Michel (F1GOC)


Mag loop Simon
 

Hi

i have some comments on this..

Not every antenna how good it is ( or not) is suitable for every location.

Ie a 160m vertical 1/4 wave with proper radial system is useless in an urban area for rx.. Put it in a field away from noise and it SHINES!! You wont get better dx antenna ( unless over sea) or have space for an antenna at 80m high ( hi Carlo!!)


Same with any short e field antenna.

I have tried e field antennas here in London..total rubbish.all i hear is smpsu’s! Waste of time and space, not antenna fault, just not suitable for here. ( i use loops)

Put same antenna in quiet location and different outcome… they work very well..in fact a short e field vertical has lower angle of radiation than any loop.
( see Lz1aq web site.)

They as do all rx ( and trx) antennas NEED common mode chokes on coax etc..afterall why would you want to rx noise from your own house radiated down coax to antenna?

So please all stop slatting a perfectly good antenna ( or variations of, ie short vertical with preamp) just because it does not work for you..its just not fair or correct to do so.

Finished now, thank you for reading.

Simon g0zen


Tony_AD0VC
 

Agreed. It is the siting and local noise environment that very often determines the effectiveness of a particular antenna. I have both an e-field probe antenna and an ALA1530LNP loop. I use the E-field antenna almost exclusively due to the loop being more susceptible to the local noise field. However, there are times when it is the other way around.

Tony


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Mag loop Simon <ohhellnotagain@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 12:14 PM
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io <main@sdr-radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Antennas: Best Mini-Whip ??
 
Hi

i have some comments on this..

Not every antenna how good it is ( or not) is suitable for every location.

Ie a 160m vertical 1/4 wave with proper radial system is useless in an urban area for rx.. Put it in a field away from noise and it SHINES!! You wont get better dx antenna ( unless over sea) or have space for an antenna at 80m high ( hi Carlo!!)


Same with any short e  field antenna.

I have tried e field antennas here in London..total rubbish.all i hear is smpsu’s! Waste of time and space, not antenna fault, just not suitable for here. ( i use loops)

Put same antenna in quiet location and different outcome… they work very well..in fact a short e field vertical has lower angle of radiation than  any loop.
( see Lz1aq web site.)

They as do all rx ( and trx) antennas NEED common mode chokes on coax etc..afterall why would you want to rx noise from your own house radiated down coax to antenna?

So please all stop slatting a perfectly good antenna ( or variations of, ie short vertical with preamp) just because it does not work for you..its just not fair or correct to do so.

Finished now, thank you for reading.

Simon g0zen





Brent Seres/ VE3CUS
 

Points well taken. When I tried the antenna,  it was relatively close to the house in a fairly noisy RF environment,  so I can't honestly comment on how it would work in a quiet location...I was just commenting on my personal experience. Didn't intend to bash or offend anyone.  

73
Brent 
VE3CUS 





Mag loop Simon
 

Hi Brent

You have not bashed etc anyone.. just saying different antennas at different locations work differently..

This is important.

Magnetic loop type antennas work well/ can work well in high E noise areas( and non noise areas) but e type antennas tend not too..
So one must choice wisely..( or expect disappointment.)

Very basically man made noise is mainly E field..so if in “ man” area expect E antennas not to be happy and be disappointing. ( tried it..no go here, but stunning on beach away from noise.)

Simon


Tony_AD0VC
 

Manmade noise is mainly E... 

Not sure I agree but I only have my house to go by. LEDs, CFLs switching supplies are mainly low voltage high current. Used to be that high voltage was common, but not so much these days (CRT TVs and Monitors). Power line noise still qualifies as high voltage and that is what still hammers my E-probe most of the time.

Tony 


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Mag loop Simon <ohhellnotagain@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 4:05 PM
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io <main@sdr-radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Antennas: Best Mini-Whip ??
 
Hi Brent

You have not bashed etc anyone.. just saying different antennas at different locations work differently..

This is important.

Magnetic loop type antennas work well/ can work well  in high E noise areas( and non noise areas) but e type antennas tend not too..
So one must choice wisely..( or expect disappointment.)

 Very basically man made noise is mainly  E field..so if in “ man” area expect E antennas not to be happy and be disappointing. ( tried it..no go here, but stunning on beach away from noise.)

Simon





Mag loop Simon
 

Another disadvantage of e probe/ short vertical etc is that they are omnidirectional..( rx 360 degrees, incase i spelt that wrong.) where as loops are not, which if say your power line is north of you one can null it out with a loop. You cant do that with a e probe/ short vertical. ( not they they are bad!)

I don’t have the theoretical knowledge to explain the difference between man made noise and not..but I can see it in my head, just can not put to words.same as i can look at something mechanical and tell you if it will work or not..dont know why, just can.

Someone else will be able too..awaiting response from said people’s.

Best regards Simon