SDRC and Pluto with external reference


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Sigi, thank you. Sure, I can wait, it is not urgent at all.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 05:32 PM, Siegfried Jackstien wrote:

if you can wait a bit ... i have a rev c/d here and can try out a few things ... but first have to help my neighbout (tv does not work ... guessing a defwective lnb)

in an hour or two i will be back ... then i can try the rev d to flash the patch on it (xtal to 25 megs instead the 40)

more on that later

greetz sigi dg9bfc


Siegfried Jackstien
 

if you can wait a bit ... i have a rev c/d here and can try out a few things ... but first have to help my neighbout (tv does not work ... guessing a defwective lnb)

in an hour or two i will be back ... then i can try the rev d to flash the patch on it (xtal to 25 megs instead the 40)

more on that later

greetz sigi dg9bfc

Am 30.07.2021 um 16:10 schrieb Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io:

Thanks. With this variant it would be very strange if it did not work.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 04:49 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

  1. Rev. B
  2. In place of removed XO.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Thanks. With this variant it would be very strange if it did not work.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 04:49 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

  1. Rev. B
  2. In place of removed XO.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

  1. Rev. B
  2. In place of removed XO.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io
Sent: 30 July 2021 14:13
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC and Pluto with external reference

 

Simon,
two questions:

  • do you use Pluto Rev.D?
  • to supply an external reference signal do you use a dedicated "CLK_IN" connector on Pluto's board and modify code like https://tbspace.de/plutosdrclockinput.html
    or
    direct external reference signal connection to the place of the removed XO without code modification?


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:56 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

BTW,

 

I use 40MHz ext. ref. and works well.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Simon,
two questions:
  • do you use Pluto Rev.D?
  • to supply an external reference signal do you use a dedicated "CLK_IN" connector on Pluto's board and modify code like https://tbspace.de/plutosdrclockinput.html
    or
    direct external reference signal connection to the place of the removed XO without code modification?

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:56 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

BTW,

 

I use 40MHz ext. ref. and works well.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

>but I am sure it’s firmware / ref signal which is the problem.
I think so.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:56 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

It is appropriate, keep asking, but I am sure it’s firmware / ref signal which is the problem.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Done before I posted the first post here.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:34 AM, jdow wrote:
Um, er, ahm, it helps to go to the right place to try to solve it. The author of the patch is the one with whom to discuss it.
{o.o}


Simon Brown
 

BTW,

 

I use 40MHz ext. ref. and works well.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io
Sent: 30 July 2021 08:17
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC and Pluto with external reference

 

I never said that the cause of the problem is SDRC software.
This became even more evident after the failed tests with SDRAngel.
My message is posted here only to help find a solution to the problem in the community closer to Pluto's programming.
If this is not appropriate here please let me know.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

It does not work after the modification, *bad*. It simply does not start, this is your problem, not Console’s. Try all the other programs you can find…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

It is appropriate, keep asking, but I am sure it’s firmware / ref signal which is the problem.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io
Sent: 30 July 2021 08:17
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC and Pluto with external reference

 

I never said that the cause of the problem is SDRC software.
This became even more evident after the failed tests with SDRAngel.
My message is posted here only to help find a solution to the problem in the community closer to Pluto's programming.
If this is not appropriate here please let me know.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

It does not work after the modification, *bad*. It simply does not start, this is your problem, not Console’s. Try all the other programs you can find…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


jdow
 

Um, er, ahm, it helps to go to the right place to try to solve it. The author of the patch is the one with whom to discuss it.
{o.o}

On 20210730 00:03:16, Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io wrote:

Simon, thanks. Could you please clarify regarding "a bad Pluto"? 

This Pluto cannot be bad in terms of hardware since it works without a modification code. Right? 

If so then the problem is in the modification code itself - that is from the software side.

>The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. 
The problem becomes simple only when it is solved.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 09:49 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. The Pluto is detected but when Console tries to start the chip it fails. This is *NOT* Console, it’s a bad Pluto, I see this in the logfile.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com



jdow
 

At that point I'd initiate a dialog with that firmware's developer. Or see what further discussion of it and how he uses it could be helpful. (I'm not sure any additional firmware is really needed when you change the frequency other than simply using "This PC" access to the Pluto and editing the appropriate line in "config.txt". That's somewhat easier than what appears to be a script that does a whole lot of who knows what.
{^_^}

On 20210729 23:43:27, Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io wrote:

>When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?
Correct, agree 100%. We understood that.
We are trying to study this code but I am RF engineer and not a Linux programmer ... 

>Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?
SDRAngel doesn't work after that code has been loaded - similar behavior as SDRC.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 02:14 AM, jdow wrote:

When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?

Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

I never said that the cause of the problem is SDRC software.
This became even more evident after the failed tests with SDRAngel.
My message is posted here only to help find a solution to the problem in the community closer to Pluto's programming.
If this is not appropriate here please let me know.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

It does not work after the modification, *bad*. It simply does not start, this is your problem, not Console’s. Try all the other programs you can find…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

It does not work after the modification, *bad*. It simply does not start, this is your problem, not Console’s. Try all the other programs you can find…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io
Sent: 30 July 2021 08:03
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC and Pluto with external reference

 

Simon, thanks. Could you please clarify regarding "a bad Pluto"? 

This Pluto cannot be bad in terms of hardware since it works without a modification code. Right? 

If so then the problem is in the modification code itself - that is from the software side.

>The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. 
The problem becomes simple only when it is solved.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 09:49 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. The Pluto is detected but when Console tries to start the chip it fails. This is *NOT* Console, it’s a bad Pluto, I see this in the logfile.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Simon, thanks. Could you please clarify regarding "a bad Pluto"? 

This Pluto cannot be bad in terms of hardware since it works without a modification code. Right? 

If so then the problem is in the modification code itself - that is from the software side.

>The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. 
The problem becomes simple only when it is solved.


On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 09:49 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Hi,

 

The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. The Pluto is detected but when Console tries to start the chip it fails. This is *NOT* Console, it’s a bad Pluto, I see this in the logfile.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

The problem is simple: the chip is not starting due to the changes you made. The Pluto is detected but when Console tries to start the chip it fails. This is *NOT* Console, it’s a bad Pluto, I see this in the logfile.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io
Sent: 30 July 2021 07:43
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC and Pluto with external reference

 

>When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?
Correct, agree 100%. We understood that.
We are trying to study this code but I am RF engineer and not a Linux programmer ... 

>Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?
SDRAngel doesn't work after that code has been loaded - similar behavior as SDRC.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 02:14 AM, jdow wrote:

When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?

Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

>When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?
Correct, agree 100%. We understood that.
We are trying to study this code but I am RF engineer and not a Linux programmer ... 

>Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?
SDRAngel doesn't work after that code has been loaded - similar behavior as SDRC.

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 02:14 AM, jdow wrote:

When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?

Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?


jdow
 

When Pluto stops working after you install that "external reference code", does that not suggest to you that the code you just loaded into your poor Pluto has errors or features in it that render it incompatible with SDRC?

Does any OTHER program that understands Plutos work after you load that code?

{^_^}

On 20210729 11:29:57, Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io wrote:

Tested new Pluto's FW 0.33 with 25 MHz external reference code on base of https://tbspace.de/plutosdrclockinput.html - no luck.
SDRC sees Pluto after fw updating but after loading the external reference code Pluto is undetectable and cannot be used by SDRC.

 



Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

Tested new Pluto's FW 0.33 with 25 MHz external reference code on base of https://tbspace.de/plutosdrclockinput.html - no luck.
SDRC sees Pluto after fw updating but after loading the external reference code Pluto is undetectable and cannot be used by SDRC.

 


Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW
 

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 10:18 AM, jdow wrote:
AC or DC connection? You probably want to terminate the feeder in 50 ohms and use a capacitor to the CLK_IN pin.AC 
AC coupled and 50 Ohm input of LTC5967 buffer. Sigi gave you the right answer.


Siegfried Jackstien
 

joanne you show that you do not know the rev c/d :-)

it is for sure ac coupled ... and "around" 50 ohms

i do not know the input impedance of the buffer chip but the input line is with a 50 ohms (49.9) resistor and a series cap

(sidenote to karen ... internal is an xo not a tcxo ... otherwise the drift would be way lower)

another hint (also for all other readers) ... if you want to replace the xo to a tcxo in new revision you have to rewire the switching transistor Q2 from enable pin of the xo ... to the enable pin of the power regulator chip U12 ... 3 cuts with a sharpie and 2 additional wires are needed then

cut the connectio on U12 pin 4 (next to the via), cut the connection between enable of the clock and R67 and cut the connection between R101 and 1P8V_CLK

connect R101 to PG1V3 and connect R67 to pin 4 of U12

now the transistor pulls enable pn of U12 to ground and the (now changed) clock does not get power anymore when you select external clock to be active

greetz sigi dg9bfc

Am 29.07.2021 um 09:18 schrieb jdow:

AC or DC connection? You probably want to terminate the feeder in 50 ohms and use a capacitor to the CLK_IN pin.
{^_^}

On 20210728 05:24:27, Karen Tadevosyan, RA3APW via groups.io wrote:

Thanks for your reply. 
Pluto software modification has been made according to  https://tbspace.de/plutosdrclockinput.html .
Please find the picture attached.
Hardware modification - only connection of RF cable to U.FL connector "CLK_IN" on Pluto board.
External reference 25 Mhz signal is on XTAL pin of AD9363 with the correct amplitude 0.6V (p-p) as recommended. 
Internal 40 MHz TCXO is disabled. 

On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 02:42 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

I just looked at the logfile – he sees what I see when the ext. ref, is not enabled / connected.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


PlutoMod_ExtRef_25MHz.jpg