Transverter for HL2 etc.


paul newcombe <G6YZC@...>
 

Max mentioned looking for cheap VHF transverters. 
As much VHF work is done on Digi modes obviously stability is key.
This can add considerable cost to a cheap transverter. 

Here is some info from DEMI, a very well known USA company, on their latest transverter.

DEM V/U XVERTER is a multiband transverter with six separate I/O ports covering up to 6 separate amateur radio bands between 4M and 13 cm. All frequencies convert to/from 28/29 MHz. 

This is not a cheap transverter but for 6 bands AND stability I actually think it is very cheap..... From the sales literature

"We are attempting to hold the pricing to around $500 per unit but will not have a fixed price until the first production of circuit boards are in house and tested for all functions. Option types, pricing, and final specifications will also be decided then."



I have my name on the waiting list....

Paul N2EME




From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Max <radiomax@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 6:10 AM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: [SDR-Radio] Easiest/cheapest way to 6m/2m/70cm?
 
I have Hermes Lite 2 which seems now to be working extremely well with SDRC as a very effective HF station and GC HF receiver.

Now I am looking to have a play with other bands, particularly 50 MHz, but also maybe 2m and 70cms. Just wondered if there are any opinions on how best to achieve this with SDRC and maybe also the HL2?

I can see there are some very well priced 6m/2m/70cm transverters from the Ukraine on eBay. Has anyone got any experience of these units?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/221828490344

If not transverter (or perhaps a different model) then what else? I thought initially Pluto, but it does not seem to go low enough in frequency? Maybe 70 MHz but not as low as 50MHz?

Suggestions? I don't want to spend big bucks as usual! 

Many thanks

Max


Max
 

Hi Paul

Thanks for information. That is certainly interesting. A little more expensive than I was looking at and also I am not a great digi-modes person, but I will certainly keep an eye on it.

73

Max



On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 03:08 AM, paul newcombe wrote:
Max mentioned looking for cheap VHF transverters. 
As much VHF work is done on Digi modes obviously stability is key.
This can add considerable cost to a cheap transverter. 
 
Here is some info from DEMI, a very well known USA company, on their latest transverter.
 
DEM V/U XVERTER is a multiband transverter with six separate I/O ports covering up to 6 separate amateur radio bands between 4M and 13 cm. All frequencies convert to/from 28/29 MHz. 
 
This is not a cheap transverter but for 6 bands AND stability I actually think it is very cheap..... From the sales literature


Simon Brown
 

But,

 

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 02 June 2020 09:21
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Hi Paul

Thanks for information. That is certainly interesting. A little more expensive than I was looking at and also I am not a great digi-modes person, but I will certainly keep an eye on it.

73

Max



On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 03:08 AM, paul newcombe wrote:

Max mentioned looking for cheap VHF transverters. 

As much VHF work is done on Digi modes obviously stability is key.

This can add considerable cost to a cheap transverter. 

 

Here is some info from DEMI, a very well known USA company, on their latest transverter.

 

DEM V/U XVERTER is a multiband transverter with six separate I/O ports covering up to 6 separate amateur radio bands between 4M and 13 cm. All frequencies convert to/from 28/29 MHz. 

 

This is not a cheap transverter but for 6 bands AND stability I actually think it is very cheap..... From the sales literature


Brian Morrison
 

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 12:18:09 +0100
"Simon Brown" <simon@...> wrote:

But,



HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a
local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the
ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne
transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.
You'll need all the bolts in your antennas really tight too!

--

Brian G8SEZ


Simon Brown
 

😊

 

True, amp is scheduled for November / December 2020. Haven't bought Kuhne yet - waiting to get FDM DUNO transmit working - there's a lot that can be done with this superb little radio.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Morrison
Sent: 02 June 2020 15:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 12:18:09 +0100

"Simon Brown" <simon@...> wrote:

 

> But,

>

>

> HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a

> local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the

> ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne

> transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

You'll need all the bolts in your antennas really tight too!

 

--

 

Brian  G8SEZ

 

 

 

 


Max
 

Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Lou, KI5FTY
 

Hey max do you have a link to  the other 2/70 eBay transverter"

73
Lou KI5FTY



On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 5:15 PM Max <radiomax@...> wrote:
Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Simon Brown
 

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 02 June 2020 23:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Ron
 

Hi Simon,

Here is a link to the ebay store so you can see the range...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/Transverters-Store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Regards

Ron, G6BMY

On 03/06/2020 05:38, Simon Brown wrote:

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 02 June 2020 23:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com



Virus-free. www.avg.com


Ron
 

There is also...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-Band-50-70-to-28-MHz-10Watts-ASSEMBLED-TRANSVERTER-VHF-UHF-28mhz/142782917659?hash=item213e866c1b:g:D9AAAOSwJJxd7UKH

from another supplier

Ron

On 03/06/2020 05:38, Simon Brown wrote:

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 02 June 2020 23:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com



Virus-free. www.avg.com


Simon Brown
 

Ron,

 

Thanks. Had a look at DEMI => Q5 Signal, I think I’ll get a unit from Q5 Signal. Either:

 

  • 25W transverter + 1kW amp or
  • 150W transverter.

 

Am tempted to just get the 150W transverter but 1kW is 1kW, of course a *lot* more expensive.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron
Sent: 03 June 2020 06:07
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

There is also...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-Band-50-70-to-28-MHz-10Watts-ASSEMBLED-TRANSVERTER-VHF-UHF-28mhz/142782917659?hash=item213e866c1b:g:D9AAAOSwJJxd7UKH

from another supplier

Ron

On 03/06/2020 05:38, Simon Brown wrote:

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 02 June 2020 23:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Nice, but Kuhne too much cash for just a casual user like me as I would like to dabble on several bands. I think I will first try one of the Ukrainian transverters for 6m and take it from there. Still considering Pluto but pondering the power amp and filters situation for that rig for 2m/70cm. Might actually just get the other 2/70 eBay transverter. My need is pretty much casual + I don't really have interest in frequencies higher than 70cm, although I guess Q0-100 sounds like a bit of fun too. Not sure how a dish will go down on the back lawn along with the other antenna "clutter".  I also don't have a QRO neighbour on VHF!

73

Max  


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:18 PM, Simon Brown wrote:

HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range. I have a local who is 104 dB SNR on 2m the back of my beam! I’m getting the ELAD DUO working, this will have ~100dB dynamic range, add a Kuhne transverter, nice big amp and I will try it on 2m.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Max
 

Simon and all (I think some are ahead of me with other links):

Dual band and others:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/hfvhfparts/Transverters/_i.html?_storecat=9263173014

6m:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=291757178238&_sacat=0

Website:
http://transverters-store.com/

Not watched all of this but looks quite interesting (transverters-store) transverter (by UT5JCW?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8JQ0SIUlI8

73

Max





On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 05:38 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

After thinking a bit about this, I am looking at the 150W DEMI transverter. 150W is enough for Tropo and E’s and good for portable. If I decide to annoy the few neighbours I have then it’s a 1kW amplifier from DX Shop.

 

I will experiment with the ELAD DUO and a DEMI.

 

There’s the Hungarian guy HA1YA but no prices on his website .

 

Kuhne is a fine piece of kit but more than a Muppet such as myself needs.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 03 June 2020 12:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

Simon and all (I think some are ahead of me with other links):

Dual band and others:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/hfvhfparts/Transverters/_i.html?_storecat=9263173014

6m:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=291757178238&_sacat=0

Website:
http://transverters-store.com/

Not watched all of this but looks quite interesting (transverters-store) transverter (by UT5JCW?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8JQ0SIUlI8

73

Max





On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 05:38 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Max,

 

Please show a link for these Ukrainian transverters, thanks.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com


Max
 

DEMI..... Nice, especially with integrated amp. Single bands $500 ish but Multi-band $2k however.....

Too much to justify for me as I am only "playing" with them. I will almost certainly dip toe in the water with the 6m Ukraine jobbie for starters. $85 fully assembled with auto-sense switching...... strewth..... if it is even half decent you cannot really go wrong. Just fancy the odd bit of DX when the band is up on a band I have always been intrigued by but never had kit to try.

Max


On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 01:00 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
After thinking a bit about this, I am looking at the 150W DEMI transverter. 150W is enough for Tropo and E’s and good for portable.


Christian Veith
 

Hi Max,

I'm using a 2m transverter from transverter-store.com with my HL2.

I ordered it with the attenuator board and didn't use it ;)

I've routed the transverters Rx output to the Rx input of the HL2 available on the rear pin header and feed the transverter with PA off from the low power output.

I used the socket for the HF Antenna on the transverter for RX out and added another sma socket to the back of the HL2 as Rx in.

It's working quite well. But there's much crosstalk coming from the transverter when transmitting.

Best regards

Chris

Am 3. Juni 2020 15:40:42 MESZ schrieb Max <radiomax@...>:
DEMI..... Nice, especially with integrated amp. Single bands $500 ish but Multi-band $2k however.....

Too much to justify for me as I am only "playing" with them. I will almost certainly dip toe in the water with the 6m Ukraine jobbie for starters. $85 fully assembled with auto-sense switching...... strewth..... if it is even half decent you cannot really go wrong. Just fancy the odd bit of DX when the band is up on a band I have always been intrigued by but never had kit to try.

Max


On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 01:00 PM, Simon Brown wrote:
After thinking a bit about this, I am looking at the 150W DEMI transverter. 150W is enough for Tropo and E’s and good for portable.



Vy 73 de DL5CV


Max
 

Hi Chris

That's very interesting. Any chance you could explain further the crosstalk issue? I don't fully understand the problem you describe.

Yes, I was also researching use of the low power outputs and separate RX inputs after viewing the YouTube video (demo with Flex) I referenced earlier. However, as explained on the Transverter Store website, I can see some convenience on being able to chain the transverters together, or use a coax switch to go between several units and just turn on the one I want to use as I like the idea of switching between bands quickly and easily. Then again I guess this could all be done with relay switching for the low power/RX output/input from the HL2? Sadly for me it's all about the time it takes to build those sort of solutions, as I am very "time poor" for radio projects at the moment sadly.

For anyone else following this there is also an interesting thread on the HL2 Group discussion (you don't need to be a member to view). There is discussion (if you dig through the thread) about the Ukraine transverter small drift due to crystal oscillator and possible replacement with synth board from eBay (ADF4351) to reduce drift and also combat harmonic outputs from the onboard Xtal oscillator (drift worry was mentioned earlier in this thread.... sorry, just don't have time right now to refer back so apologies to author):
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/hermes-lite/transverter|sort:date/hermes-lite/uR6whFr3p6U/CnR2cvB_AQAJ

73

Max



On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 10:01 AM, Christian Veith wrote:
Hi Max,

I'm using a 2m transverter from transverter-store.com with my HL2.

I ordered it with the attenuator board and didn't use it ;)

I've routed the transverters Rx output to the Rx input of the HL2 available on the rear pin header and feed the transverter with PA off from the low power output.

I used the socket for the HF Antenna on the transverter for RX out and added another sma socket to the back of the HL2 as Rx in.

It's working quite well. But there's much crosstalk coming from the transverter when transmitting.

Best regards

Chris


Bill Cox
 

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


jdow
 

I am not sure you can find an FM transmitter that good, a ham "studio" that quiet, or a path offering that demodulated instantaneous SNR. With a modulated signal your ears will generally not be able to hear an instantaneous SINAD over 40 dB or less. This is why most existing audio compression schemes work,

But, I think that's not what you meant. Nonetheless it is an interesting factoid that my particular ear problems taught me a lot about.

Yes, information is present in the averages of signal transitions. You can decimate signals down or look in FFT bins well below the 14 bits nominal dynamic range due to this averaging effect. Think of a signal that is maybe 6.5 bits peak to peak. Riding with it is a signal half a bit peak to peak. If they both are perfectly built around zero sometimes the A/D converter will read 7 bits, 6 bits, or even 5 bits. The weak signal comes out of that bit jitter. (That may be a poorly constructed example. But the essence is there. I have to get ready for some talks with my realtor.)

{^_^}

On 20210618 06:03:32, Bill Cox wrote:
        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


Simon Brown
 

After decimation the ENOB is much higher.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Cox
Sent: 18 June 2021 14:04
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.