Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #sdrconsolev3 #anan


Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Hi All

I've had an Anan 7000 for all of 12 hours, and am seeing something odd in SDR Console 3.0.20 - essentially a bunch of oscillating noise/QRM.  Strange thing is that it is not present in PowerSDR/Thetis at the same location, same time, same antenna etc.  It's likely an obvious setting in Console somewhere but I haven't found it yet.  Any ideas?

Chris - AG5RR / VK3ICM




Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

I notice that turning Main Filter to Off removes the artifacts.  Is it possible the wrong filter is being enabled for the current band?  It seems to significantly attenuate received signals that should be in the pass band - e.g. on 20m a -105 dBm signal drops to ~ -125 dBm when Main Filter is set to On.  I'm running an Anan 7000dle mk2, p2 firmware 2.0.


Simon Brown
 

 

Screenshots as attachments! I have to copy, paste into Paint, zoom and try to see the detail. Anyway, this is either a SMPSU or monitor.

 

What happens when you unplug the antenna?

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 07 April 2020 23:47
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Hi All

I've had an Anan 7000 for all of 12 hours, and am seeing something odd in SDR Console 3.0.20 - essentially a bunch of oscillating noise/QRM.  Strange thing is that it is not present in PowerSDR/Thetis at the same location, same time, same antenna etc.  It's likely an obvious setting in Console somewhere but I haven't found it yet.  Any ideas?

Chris - AG5RR / VK3ICM




M0ZEH <m0zeh@...>
 

Try and make the horizontal and vertical scales the same on both pictures.


Alan G4ZFQ
 

bunch of oscillating noise/QRM. Strange thing is that it is not present in PowerSDR/Thetis at the same location, same time,
Chris,

A Simon says this is external.
I've seen similar on one SDR, not another. I forget exactly how it was getting into the one, it was something local, PSU I think.

73 Alan G4ZFQ


Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with no-antenna connected.

In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right?  So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right settings.


Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Simon -

On 30M, 20M, 17M, 15M etc turning the main filter on attenuates a test signal by about 10-120b.  On 40M and below there is no attenuation.  Does that indicate that the wrong filter is being switched in on the 7000 for the higher bands?

Cheers - Chris


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 3:01 AM Chris Moore via groups.io <rack201=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with no-antenna connected.

In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right?  So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right settings.

Attachments:


jdow
 

What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes. That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with no-antenna connected.
In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right settings.
Thetis.JPG
Console - main filter off.JPG
Console - Main filter on.JPG
thetis - no ant.JPG
Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG


Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

I’ll have to think about this, I wonder whether it comes from the inverter inside the radio?

 

Odd that you don’t see it with PowerSDR.

 

I’ll have to think about this, nothing obvious I’m afraid.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 09:29
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Simon -

 

On 30M, 20M, 17M, 15M etc turning the main filter on attenuates a test signal by about 10-120b.  On 40M and below there is no attenuation.  Does that indicate that the wrong filter is being switched in on the 7000 for the higher bands?

 

Cheers - Chris

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 3:01 AM Chris Moore via groups.io <rack201=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with no-antenna connected.

In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right?  So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right settings.

Attachments:


Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Thanks jdow -

I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@...> wrote:
What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift
rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that
stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? 
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>




Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

Been thinking about this – it may be the other ADC which is not set to do anything, so I should probably set the other ADC to the same frequency as the main ADC.

 

Anyway, I have other code I must get finished, then I can look at this after Easter,

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 12:19
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Thanks jdow -

 

I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@...> wrote:

What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift
rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that
stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? 
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>



Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Awesome - thanks Scott.  Separately I'm trying to see if others with the same HW see the same behavior, or its just me.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:51 AM Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

Been thinking about this – it may be the other ADC which is not set to do anything, so I should probably set the other ADC to the same frequency as the main ADC.

 

Anyway, I have other code I must get finished, then I can look at this after Easter,

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 12:19
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Thanks jdow -

 

I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@...> wrote:

What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift
rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that
stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? 
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>



Chris Moore <rack201@...>
 

Simon..

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM Chris Moore via groups.io <rack201=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Awesome - thanks Scott.  Separately I'm trying to see if others with the same HW see the same behavior, or its just me.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:51 AM Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

Been thinking about this – it may be the other ADC which is not set to do anything, so I should probably set the other ADC to the same frequency as the main ADC.

 

Anyway, I have other code I must get finished, then I can look at this after Easter,

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 12:19
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Thanks jdow -

 

I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@...> wrote:

What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift
rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that
stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? 
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>



Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

I do see the same with the 8000, must be my software.

 

Today’s super-sunny so am washing the windows, cleaning the house etc.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 14:42
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Simon..

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM Chris Moore via groups.io <rack201=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Awesome - thanks Scott.  Separately I'm trying to see if others with the same HW see the same behavior, or its just me.

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:51 AM Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

Been thinking about this – it may be the other ADC which is not set to do anything, so I should probably set the other ADC to the same frequency as the main ADC.

 

Anyway, I have other code I must get finished, then I can look at this after Easter,

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: 08 April 2020 12:19
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Noise in Console but not Thetis/PowerSDR? #anan #sdrconsolev3

 

Thanks jdow -

 

I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@...> wrote:

What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they drift
rather sloppily.

The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.

The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.

I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all that
stuff.

{^_^}

On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console right? 
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>


Max
 

Probably totally unrelated, but HL2 displays something slightly similar on 160m when the N2ADR filter board is enabled (well, it used to before the "fix" documented below).

I saw it before I upgraded to latest firmware and in SDRC it did not look at all dissimilar to what you are seeing here.

Odd it is seen in SDRC and not on PowerSDR though...... anyway, take or leave information as appropriate.

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/wiki/Options

73

Max


jdow
 

That suggests Simon's power supply conjecture might have something to do with it.

You can settle one other conjecture I have by trying all combinations of the attenuator and gain settings to make sure "off" is really "off" and not "on" by negative logic. Look for the gain to drop when attenuation is switched in.

{^_^}

On 20200408 04:19:29, Chris Moore wrote:
Thanks jdow -
I just tried with a dummy load and see the same issue
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:12 AM jdow <jdow@earthlink.net <mailto:jdow@earthlink.net>> wrote:
What happens if you put a 50 ohm dummy load on the input. And if that's not
feasible for you short the input with a very short piece of wire and see what
happens. Do either of these make that almost oscillation stop. I don't think
these are software artifacts. And they are not normal RF artifacts as they
drift
rather sloppily.
The one at 14.4507 MHz or so is an alias for the one at14.415 MHz or so. That
suggests a horrid phase imbalance. The "signal" would have to have a horrid
waveform with a lot of harmonics for that to be the case.
The turn on chirp is interesting as well as being a clue to the two tones being
related. I'd wiggle wires and change their routing to see if the spur changes.
That might lead you to what is going wrong. It seems WAY WAY too unstable to be
a digital artifact.
I presume these are both taken on the same computer, same USB port, and all
that
stuff.
{^_^}
On 20200408 01:01:20, Chris Moore wrote:
> Some hopefully less terrible screenshots attached.  The same issue with
> no-antenna connected.
>
> In Console, turning the 'main filter' off clearly fixes the problem.  If
this is
> external, I should be able to see the issue in both Thetis and Console
right?
> So far I'm not able to to in Thetis, but I could easily be missing the right
> settings.
>
>
> Thetis.JPG
>
>
> Console - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - Main filter on.JPG
>
>
> thetis - no ant.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter off.JPG
>
>
> Console - no ant - main filter on.JPG
>
dummy load - filter on.JPG
dummy load - filter off.JPG


Joe W4WT <w4wt@...>
 

I can also confirm these spurious responses, as they appear to be, only occur in Console; not Thetis..  I'm using a 7000DLE MKII.

Joe W4WT