W-FM


robpegsuk
 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

No –I’ll maybe add it very soon but need help!

 

What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it’s 100kHz, anyway let me know what typical bandwidths are needed please.

 

You never know – I may even add stereo J

 

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

 

 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcast_band

 

Deviation and bandpass

Normally each channel is 200 kHz (0.2 MHz) wide, and can pass audio and subcarrier frequencies up to 100 kHz. Deviation is typically limited to 150 kHz total (±75 kHz) in order to prevent interference to adjacent channels on the band. Stations in the U.S. may go up to 10% over this limit if they use non-stereo subcarriers, increasing total modulation by 0.5% for each 1% used by the subcarriers.

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

 

 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob


robpegsuk
 

Hi Simon
I think most other SDR software cover unto 192khz on W-FM
73 Rob

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,



No -I'll maybe add it very soon but need help!



What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it's 100kHz, anyway let me
know what typical bandwidths are needed please.



You never know - I may even add stereo J



Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM





I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

OK – if that’s what’s needed then the next kit will have this, just mono only to start with J

 

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:37
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: W-FM

 

 

Hi Simon
I think most other SDR software cover unto 192khz on W-FM
73 Rob
--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> No -I'll maybe add it very soon but need help!
>
>
>
> What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it's 100kHz, anyway let me
> know what typical bandwidths are needed please.
>
>
>
> You never know - I may even add stereo J
>
>
>
> Simon HB9DRV
>
> http://sdr-radio.com
>
>
>
> From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
> On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
> Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
> To: sdr-radio-com@...
> Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM
>
>
>
>
>
> I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
> Rob
>


robpegsuk
 

Ah thats great news,and thanks for the link. Mono is fine. just nice when working on the computer to have radio 1 playing in the background.

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,



OK - if that's what's needed then the next kit will have this, just mono
only to start with J



Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:37
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: W-FM





Hi Simon
I think most other SDR software cover unto 192khz on W-FM
73 Rob
--- In sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> , "Simon HB9DRV" <simon@> wrote:

Hi,



No -I'll maybe add it very soon but need help!



What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it's 100kHz, anyway let
me
know what typical bandwidths are needed please.



You never know - I may even add stereo J



Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@... <mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM





I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Internet?

 

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO

Ah thats great news,and thanks for the link. Mono is fine. just nice when working on the computer to have radio 1 playing in the background.


robpegsuk
 

No the Funcube Dongle.

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" <simon@...> wrote:

Internet?



Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO

Ah thats great news,and thanks for the link. Mono is fine. just nice when
working on the computer to have radio 1 playing in the background.


jose maria trueba
 

Hi,

75KHz is the nominal frequency deviation of a FM mono broadcast transmission, but now all of them are using stereo mode, adding two 38KHz sub-carriers. Mode is called 256-f3 because (75dev+38stereo+15max_audio_freq)x2 equals 256, nominal bandwidth.

Later they came with RDS, sub-carrier is at 57KHz, resulting a max bandwidth of  (57+75)x2 equal to 264, and filters should be as wide 280KHz. There are some 330KHz filters to be used in cascade with another one. I imagine that some are that wide to give a margin for some over-deviating transmissions.

Let us say that 280KHz@-6dB is a reasonable bandwidth.

73's
Jose

2011/1/4 Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>

 

Hi,

 

No –I’ll maybe add it very soon but need help!

 

What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it’s 100kHz, anyway let me know what typical bandwidths are needed please.

 

You never know – I may even add stereo J

 

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

 

 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob



n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Rob M0TFO" <robpegs@...> wrote:


No the Funcube Dongle.
Don't expect stellar performance from the Dongle on Broadcast FM. It can only "read" an 80 Khz wide swath, and broadcast FM is 150 KHz wide. It'll work, but it won't sound pleasant at all.

N1RX (one of the lucky few to own one right now)


robpegsuk
 

Hi Ive been rx'ing broadcast stations all day via my FUNcube using WRplus (with W-FM)and sounds great.
yes not BBC quality but sounds great.

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "n1rx" <bruce.beford@...> wrote:



--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Rob M0TFO" <robpegs@> wrote:


No the Funcube Dongle.
Don't expect stellar performance from the Dongle on Broadcast FM. It can only "read" an 80 Khz wide swath, and broadcast FM is 150 KHz wide. It'll work, but it won't sound pleasant at all.

N1RX (one of the lucky few to own one right now)


n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Rob M0TFO" <robpegs@...> wrote:

Hi Ive been rx'ing broadcast stations all day via my FUNcube using WRplus (with W-FM)and sounds great.
yes not BBC quality but sounds great.
I guess BBC quality is better than great then! -Bruce


robpegsuk
 

:-)lol

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "n1rx" <bruce.beford@...> wrote:



--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Rob M0TFO" <robpegs@> wrote:

Hi Ive been rx'ing broadcast stations all day via my FUNcube using WRplus (with W-FM)and sounds great.
yes not BBC quality but sounds great.
I guess BBC quality is better than great then! -Bruce


Russ Hines <russ@...>
 

Well, having worked as a broadcast engineer in the U.S. for nearly the last 30 years, all I can say is... HUH?!?!?� I have no idea what Jose's been smokin', but it must be REALLY good. ;-)

I'm into versatility, but there is such a thing called "mission creep," and I'm guessing that's where this is going.�

For communications purposes, deviation for FM is +/-5kHz is wide, +/- 2.5kHz is narrow.� IMHO, 6kHz should work just dandy for both full-carrier AM and wide FM.

But if you really want to include it, then for U.S. broadcast, the channels for FM are 200kHz wide, max modulating frequency is 15kHz, 100% modulation is +/- 75kHz deviation, and all subcarriers are AM modulated.� For the AM broadcast band, the channels are 10kHz wide, max modulating frequency is about 5kHz.� Now that's assuming you don't incorporate IBOC "HD" radio that you wouldn't be able to include anyway unless you paid a horrendous licensing fee to Ibiquity.

But if you're willing to go that far, how about a incorporating an ATSC/DVB/COFDM/16QAM/64QAM/FLO digital television demod?�

See where mission creep can lead you. ;-)

Simon, your SDR Console is a really nice, useful communications tool for SDR enthusiasts, not a table top radio/stereo/MP3/8-track player/alarm-clock/coffee-maker.� I wouldn't worry trying to make it all things to all people because no one will ever be satisfied, and a once-useful tool with promise will become bloated and impossible to use.

Again, just IMHO.

73,
Russ
WB8ZCC

On 1/4/2011 3:03 PM, jose maria trueba wrote:

�

Hi,

75KHz is the nominal frequency deviation of a FM mono broadcast transmission, but now all of them are using stereo mode, adding two 38KHz sub-carriers. Mode is called 256-f3 because (75dev+38stereo+15max_audio_freq)x2 equals 256, nominal bandwidth.

Later they came with RDS, sub-carrier is at 57KHz, resulting a max bandwidth of� (57+75)x2 equal to 264, and filters should be as wide 280KHz. There are some 330KHz filters to be used in cascade with another one. I imagine that some are that wide to give a margin for some over-deviating transmissions.

Let us say that 280KHz@-6dB is a reasonable bandwidth.

73's
Jose

2011/1/4 Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
�

Hi,

�

No �I�ll maybe add it very soon but need help!

�

What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it�s 100kHz, anyway let me know what typical bandwidths are needed please.

�

You never know � I may even add stereo J

�

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

�

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

�

�

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob



Jim Miles <jmiles56@...>
 

No 8 Track?..I'm bummed out now.

Jim's iPhone 3GS 


On Jan 4, 2011, at 3:51 PM, Russ Hines <russ@...> wrote:

 

Well, having worked as a broadcast engineer in the U.S. for nearly the last 30 years, all I can say is... HUH?!?!?  I have no idea what Jose's been smokin', but it must be REALLY good. ;-)

I'm into versatility, but there is such a thing called "mission creep," and I'm guessing that's where this is going. 

For communications purposes, deviation for FM is +/-5kHz is wide, +/- 2.5kHz is narrow.  IMHO, 6kHz should work just dandy for both full-carrier AM and wide FM.

But if you really want to include it, then for U.S. broadcast, the channels for FM are 200kHz wide, max modulating frequency is 15kHz, 100% modulation is +/- 75kHz deviation, and all subcarriers are AM modulated.  For the AM broadcast band, the channels are 10kHz wide, max modulating frequency is about 5kHz.  Now that's assuming you don't incorporate IBOC "HD" radio that you wouldn't be able to include anyway unless you paid a horrendous licensing fee to Ibiquity.

But if you're willing to go that far, how about a incorporating an ATSC/DVB/COFDM/16QAM/64QAM/FLO digital television demod? 

See where mission creep can lead you. ;-)

Simon, your SDR Console is a really nice, useful communications tool for SDR enthusiasts, not a table top radio/stereo/MP3/8-track player/alarm-clock/coffee-maker.  I wouldn't worry trying to make it all things to all people because no one will ever be satisfied, and a once-useful tool with promise will become bloated and impossible to use.

Again, just IMHO.

73,
Russ
WB8ZCC

On 1/4/2011 3:03 PM, jose maria trueba wrote:
 

Hi,

75KHz is the nominal frequency deviation of a FM mono broadcast transmission, but now all of them are using stereo mode, adding two 38KHz sub-carriers. Mode is called 256-f3 because (75dev+38stereo+15max_audio_freq)x2 equals 256, nominal bandwidth.

Later they came with RDS, sub-carrier is at 57KHz, resulting a max bandwidth of  (57+75)x2 equal to 264, and filters should be as wide 280KHz. There are some 330KHz filters to be used in cascade with another one. I imagine that some are that wide to give a margin for some over-deviating transmissions.

Let us say that 280KHz@-6dB is a reasonable bandwidth.

73's
Jose

2011/1/4 Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

No –I’ll maybe add it very soon but need help!

 

What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it’s 100kHz, anyway let me know what typical bandwidths are needed please.

 

You never know – I may even add stereo J

 

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

 

 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob



n1rx <bruce.beford@...>
 

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., Jim Miles <jmiles56@...> wrote:

No 8 Track?..I'm bummed out now.
I know! I was just gonna ask for that...

Seriously, my brother in law gave ma a copy of the new Elton John and Leon Russell collaboration on VINYL phonograph records for Christmas. His wife asked him if I had a way to play those. He said, "of course he does!" He was right. I'll play them once, simultaneously transcribing to wax cylinder, reel-to-reel, and MP3. 8-) Bruce, N1RX


jose maria trueba
 

Yes, everybody knows that our FM is +/5KHz deviation and 2.5 being the narrow mode.
No secret either that AM station channels are every 10KHz in the U.S. and 9KHz in Europe. Right!

Nice to find a colleague here. I am working for a broadcast radio, FM and AM and TV, since 1983. Not 30 years yet! You worked longer, but that not proves much, I am sorry.

My numbers are right, believe or not. Just check a good FM receiver, if you don't believe it. Take just one of your RF generators and check bandwidths. You can even open the lid of the receiver and read filter numbers. And think about it twice, this time.

2011/1/4 Russ Hines <russ@...>

 

Well, having worked as a broadcast engineer in the U.S. for nearly the last 30 years, all I can say is... HUH?!?!?  I have no idea what Jose's been smokin', but it must be REALLY good. ;-)

I'm into versatility, but there is such a thing called "mission creep," and I'm guessing that's where this is going. 

For communications purposes, deviation for FM is +/-5kHz is wide, +/- 2.5kHz is narrow.  IMHO, 6kHz should work just dandy for both full-carrier AM and wide FM.

But if you really want to include it, then for U.S. broadcast, the channels for FM are 200kHz wide, max modulating frequency is 15kHz, 100% modulation is +/- 75kHz deviation, and all subcarriers are AM modulated.  For the AM broadcast band, the channels are 10kHz wide, max modulating frequency is about 5kHz.  Now that's assuming you don't incorporate IBOC "HD" radio that you wouldn't be able to include anyway unless you paid a horrendous licensing fee to Ibiquity.

But if you're willing to go that far, how about a incorporating an ATSC/DVB/COFDM/16QAM/64QAM/FLO digital television demod? 

See where mission creep can lead you. ;-)

Simon, your SDR Console is a really nice, useful communications tool for SDR enthusiasts, not a table top radio/stereo/MP3/8-track player/alarm-clock/coffee-maker.  I wouldn't worry trying to make it all things to all people because no one will ever be satisfied, and a once-useful tool with promise will become bloated and impossible to use.

Again, just IMHO.

73,
Russ
WB8ZCC

On 1/4/2011 3:03 PM, jose maria trueba wrote:
 

Hi,

75KHz is the nominal frequency deviation of a FM mono broadcast transmission, but now all of them are using stereo mode, adding two 38KHz sub-carriers. Mode is called 256-f3 because (75dev+38stereo+15max_audio_freq)x2 equals 256, nominal bandwidth.

Later they came with RDS, sub-carrier is at 57KHz, resulting a max bandwidth of  (57+75)x2 equal to 264, and filters should be as wide 280KHz. There are some 330KHz filters to be used in cascade with another one. I imagine that some are that wide to give a margin for some over-deviating transmissions.

Let us say that 280KHz@-6dB is a reasonable bandwidth.

73's
Jose

2011/1/4 Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

No –I’ll maybe add it very soon but need help!

 

What bandwidths are needed? For broadcast I think it’s 100kHz, anyway let me know what typical bandwidths are needed please.

 

You never know – I may even add stereo J

 

Simon HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Rob M0TFO
Sent: 04 January 2011 20:10
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] W-FM

 

 

I may of just missed it,but does sdr-radio support Wide FM?
Rob




jose maria trueba
 

Russ,
Just thinking about it...
Take your spectrum analyzer and select max-hold while at any FM station in your area. You can see easily how wide it is. In my area they are wide!
73's
Jose


RFSPACE
 

Jose,

You are right about the broadcast FM stations being over 200 KHz wide. In the US the stations can be up to about 400 KHz wide with the IBOC digital carriers. If you look at FM 99.7 just captured in Atlanta with the NetSDR and the internal FM Broadcast board, you can see that most of the audio/subcarrier part of the signal is about 200 KHz. If you count the IBOC digital carriers then it is closer to 400 KHz. The SDR-IQ does 190 KHz and you can hear some clipping when demoding WFM so it has peaks past 190 KHz. A proper demod would have to be wider than this.

Regards,

Pieter



On 1/4/2011 8:08 PM, jose maria trueba wrote:

 

Russ,
Just thinking about it...
Take your spectrum analyzer and select max-hold while at any FM station in your area. You can see easily how wide it is. In my area they are wide!
73's
Jose


RFSPACE
 

Here is a capture in Max Hold of the same FM station.

Pieter