2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP <Demod modes for future SDR Console>


Chris
 

For practical purposes ECSS is just SAM with extra features. A sort of SAM-plus. So no need for both. Maybe you could implement ECSS and just call it SAM?

Best to retain conventional AM as well although it probably won't get used much once AM users find out how good ECSS is.

As for bandwidths, sorry to keep quoting Alberto's Winrad but he seems to have settled for the following:

LSB/USB up to 5.5Khz
AM up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
ECSS up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
FM (NBFM actually) 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of centre)
CW up to 1.4Khz (700 Hz each size of centre)
DRM up to 11.5Khz (it seems to be just USB except can go wider). This mode should be great for digimodes as it would allow a secondary waterfall/panoramic display (could be an external digi program) of up that width.

73, Chris ZL1BOE

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" <simon@...> wrote:

Hi,



What do you suggest - add Alberto's ECSS (LSB, USB, DSB) as well as AM /
SAM? It's not a problem, I just want to know what I should do. At some stage
I'll open up the audio to 6kHz (half of 12kHz) or 8kHz (half of 16kHz).



More important programming at the moment but I can slot ECSS support in next
week.



Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
On Behalf Of Chris
Sent: 11 June 2010 00:50
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP





There are several different flavours of SAM.

I think the one to beat is in Winrad (called ECSS). It will phase lock to
any AM or steady carrier and the frequency display will show the carrier
signal to the nearest Hz. If you keep clicking on the ECSS button it will
cycle through dsb/usb/lsb and back to to dsb. Great for QRM affecting only
one sideband. Music sounds pitch perfect.

It is a joy not only for AM reception but also for WWV where it should read
exactly 2.5/5/10 or 15 Mhz if your radio is accurate.

With the SDR-IQ and maybe other radios you can software tweak the clock
setting until it reads spot on.

73, Chris ZL1BOE

--- In sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> , "John T. Fleming" <john@>
wrote:

SAM is synchronous AM detection.



73,

John



From: sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:sdr-radio-com@...
<mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Robin Thompson
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:18 PM
To: sdr-radio-com@... <mailto:sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [sdr-radio-com] 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP





Amazing .

And what is SAM ? (or did I miss something?)



Robin

G3TKF


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

Was just about to see exactly how Alberto had implemented ECSS, last night I got his frequency error correction code working so that the software locks onto the AM carrier. Am now continuing with this and will soon have ECSS LSB / USB / DSB working.

 

Alberto knows what he's doing with DSP theory, that's for sure. Me - I'm just learning :)

 

As for bandwidths - I'll sort this out sooner or later.

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Chris

For practical purposes ECSS is just SAM with extra features. A sort of SAM-plus. So no need for both. Maybe you could implement ECSS and just call it SAM?

Best to retain conventional AM as well although it probably won't get used much once AM users find out how good ECSS is.

As for bandwidths, sorry to keep quoting Alberto's Winrad but he seems to have settled for the following:

LSB/USB up to 5.5Khz
AM up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
ECSS up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
FM (NBFM actually) 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of centre)
CW up to 1.4Khz (700 Hz each size of centre)
DRM up to 11.5Khz (it seems to be just USB except can go wider). This mode should be great for digimodes as it would allow a secondary waterfall/panoramic display (could be an external digi program) of up that width.

73, Chris ZL1BOE

--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> What do you suggest - add Alberto's ECSS (LSB, USB, DSB) as well as AM /
> SAM? It's not a problem, I just want to know what I should do. At some stage
> I'll open up the audio to 6kHz (half of 12kHz) or 8kHz (half of 16kHz).
>
>
>
> More important programming at the moment but I can slot ECSS support in next
> week.
>
>
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> http://sdr-radio.com
>
>
>
> From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Sent: 11 June 2010 00:50
> To: sdr-radio-com@...
> Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP
>
>
>
>
>
> There are several different flavours of SAM.
>
> I think the one to beat is in Winrad (called ECSS). It will phase lock to
> any AM or steady carrier and the frequency display will show the carrier
> signal to the nearest Hz. If you keep clicking on the ECSS button it will
> cycle through dsb/usb/lsb and back to to dsb. Great for QRM affecting only
> one sideband. Music sounds pitch perfect.
>
> It is a joy not only for AM reception but also for WWV where it should read
> exactly 2.5/5/10 or 15 Mhz if your radio is accurate.
>
> With the SDR-IQ and maybe other radios you can software tweak the clock
> setting until it reads spot on.
>
> 73, Chris ZL1BOE
>
> --- In sdr-radio-com@...
> , "John T. Fleming"
> wrote:
> >
> > SAM is synchronous AM detection.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > From: sdr-radio-com@...
>
> [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...
> ]
> > On Behalf Of Robin Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:18 PM
> > To: sdr-radio-com@...
>
> > Subject: RE: [sdr-radio-com] 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing .
> >
> > And what is SAM ? (or did I miss something?)
> >
> >
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > G3TKF
> >
>


davidjmessing
 

I amen what Chris said.  From what I have read there is a difference in ECSS and SAM....I like the ECSS the best.  There are times AM is needed.  I don't think you need both SAM and ECSS.  A OK with bandwidth comments.  To have ECSS choose both, and either  of the upper or lower is helpful.
 
Dave
K0RWM

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Chris <cbmuir@...> wrote:
 

For practical purposes ECSS is just SAM with extra features. A sort of SAM-plus. So no need for both. Maybe you could implement ECSS and just call it SAM?

Best to retain conventional AM as well although it probably won't get used much once AM users find out how good ECSS is.

As for bandwidths, sorry to keep quoting Alberto's Winrad but he seems to have settled for the following:

LSB/USB up to 5.5Khz
AM up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
ECSS up to 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of carrier)
FM (NBFM actually) 11Khz (5.5Khz each side of centre)
CW up to 1.4Khz (700 Hz each size of centre)
DRM up to 11.5Khz (it seems to be just USB except can go wider). This mode should be great for digimodes as it would allow a secondary waterfall/panoramic display (could be an external digi program) of up that width.

73, Chris ZL1BOE


--- In sdr-radio-com@..., "Simon HB9DRV" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> What do you suggest - add Alberto's ECSS (LSB, USB, DSB) as well as AM /
> SAM? It's not a problem, I just want to know what I should do. At some stage
> I'll open up the audio to 6kHz (half of 12kHz) or 8kHz (half of 16kHz).
>
>
>
> More important programming at the moment but I can slot ECSS support in next
> week.

>
>
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> http://sdr-radio.com
>
>
>
> From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Sent: 11 June 2010 00:50
> To: sdr-radio-com@...
> Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP
>
>
>
>
>
> There are several different flavours of SAM.
>
> I think the one to beat is in Winrad (called ECSS). It will phase lock to
> any AM or steady carrier and the frequency display will show the carrier
> signal to the nearest Hz. If you keep clicking on the ECSS button it will
> cycle through dsb/usb/lsb and back to to dsb. Great for QRM affecting only
> one sideband. Music sounds pitch perfect.
>
> It is a joy not only for AM reception but also for WWV where it should read
> exactly 2.5/5/10 or 15 Mhz if your radio is accurate.
>
> With the SDR-IQ and maybe other radios you can software tweak the clock
> setting until it reads spot on.
>
> 73, Chris ZL1BOE
>
> --- In sdr-radio-com@...
> sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> , "John T. Fleming"
> wrote:
> >
> > SAM is synchronous AM detection.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > John

> >
> >
> >
> > From: sdr-radio-com@...
> sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> > sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of Robin Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:18 PM
> > To: sdr-radio-com@... sdr-radio-com%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > Subject: RE: [sdr-radio-com] 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Amazing .
> >
> > And what is SAM ? (or did I miss something?)
> >
> >
> >
> > Robin
> >
> > G3TKF
> >
>



Leif Asbrink
 

Hi David,

I amen what Chris said. From what I have read there is a difference in ECSS
and SAM....I like the ECSS the best. There are times AM is needed. I don't
think you need both SAM and ECSS. A OK with bandwidth comments. To have
ECSS choose both, and either of the upper or lower is helpful.
There is another alternative, that is "coherent processing" as I have
implemented in Linrad. It is SAM where the user can select which carrier
he wants to use as the reference for his synchronous detection.
It is more difficult to use, but I think it will allow reception
of things that can otherwise not be heard.

To get an idea, have a look here:

http://www.sm5bsz.com/lir/am640/am640.htm

http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/kari/kari.htm


73

Leif / SM5BSZ


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi All & Leif,

 

Just listening to 11.550 MHz and notice how the AM, SAM and (new) ECSS DSB differ in decoding.

 

·        I added ECSS (DSB, LSB and USB)

·        AM bandwidth increased to a max. of 16kHz (audio therefore max 8 kHz)

·        Probably broken something in the process :(

 

Leif: it'll be interesting to look at your coherent detection - which file is it in?

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Leif Asbrink
Sent: 13 June 2010 01:21
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: Re: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP

 

 

Hi David,

> I amen what Chris said. From what I have read there is a difference in ECSS
> and SAM....I like the ECSS the best. There are times AM is needed. I don't
> think you need both SAM and ECSS. A OK with bandwidth comments. To have
> ECSS choose both, and either of the upper or lower is helpful.

There is another alternative, that is "coherent processing" as I have
implemented in Linrad. It is SAM where the user can select which carrier
he wants to use as the reference for his synchronous detection.
It is more difficult to use, but I think it will allow reception
of things that can otherwise not be heard.

To get an idea, have a look here:

http://www.sm5bsz.com/lir/am640/am640.htm

http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/kari/kari.htm

73


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

A screenshot:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sdr-radio-com/photos/album/1352727940/pic/1446497823/view

·        Note the alternate S-Meter

·        AF Spectrum (bottom left) now goes up to 8kHz in AM & FM

·        I'm listening with a filter of +/- 5054Hz or ~ 10kHz total.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Simon HB9DRV
Sent: 13 June 2010 16:09

Just listening to 11.550 MHz and notice how the AM, SAM and (new) ECSS DSB differ in decoding.


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

When Pieter gets the stereo / dual netSDR working I'm sure Leif & myself & pieter will be able to device some amazing displays which'll help with the decoding of exotic AM stations.

 

Now for a walk with t'dog and a beer.

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Simon HB9DRV

Just listening to 11.550 MHz and notice how the AM, SAM and (new) ECSS DSB differ in decoding.

 


Leif Asbrink
 

Hi Simon,

Leif: it'll be interesting to look at your coherent detection - which file
is it in?
mix2.c is responsible for baseband filtering. In coherent mode for AM
two filters are applied and the output filtered functions are baseb_raw
and baseb_carrier. The spectrum can be expanded and zoomed to allow
very narrow bantwidths for the carrier filter.

Also in mix2.c the phase of baseb_carrier is used to twist the phase
of baseb_raw and store the output in baseb which then has all its
energy in the I channel and nothing in the Q channel for a pure AM
signal. (The Q channel is helpful in hearing other stations on the
same frequency.)

When using coherent detect it is a good idea to apply a notch on the
carrier for the baseb_raw signal. (In Linrad one can apply up to 9
notches in the baseband filter for the baseb_raw signal.
The notch would remove the low frequency beat between several
carriers. Linrad uses independent AGC functions for I and Q in
coherent mode. They are derived from the audio, not from the
carrier amplitude.

A DXer would use the mode Coh2 with I and Q in the left and right
audio channel. Then head-phones are essential, loudspeakers
would not provide the phase-correct signals to both ears.
For normal listening to an AM transmission for which selective
fading occasionally produces distortion it would be perfectly
fine to use loudspeakers. Selective fading means multipath and
there may be plenty of signal in the Q channel. In cases where
the phase between sidebands is essentially correct one can
use Coh3 mode to send the I channel to both loudspeakers.
That would improve S/N by about 3 dB.

When several stations are on the same channel one can use a wide
carrier filter that will let all carriers through. Then the
Coh3 mode should be equivalent to conventional SAM.

73

Leif / SM5BSZ






Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com



From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
On Behalf Of Leif Asbrink
Sent: 13 June 2010 01:21
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: Re: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP <Demod modes for
future SDR Console>





Hi David,

I amen what Chris said. From what I have read there is a difference in
ECSS
and SAM....I like the ECSS the best. There are times AM is needed. I don't
think you need both SAM and ECSS. A OK with bandwidth comments. To have
ECSS choose both, and either of the upper or lower is helpful.
There is another alternative, that is "coherent processing" as I have
implemented in Linrad. It is SAM where the user can select which carrier
he wants to use as the reference for his synchronous detection.
It is more difficult to use, but I think it will allow reception
of things that can otherwise not be heard.

To get an idea, have a look here:

http://www.sm5bsz.com/lir/am640/am640.htm

http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/kari/kari.htm

73





Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Hi,

 

Thanks - don't have time to add this at the moment, but it'll be added at some stage.

 

First step is to add notch filters :)

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Leif Asbrink
Sent: 13 June 2010 16:46
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP

 

 

Hi Simon,

> Leif: it'll be interesting to look at your coherent detection - which file
> is it in?

mix2.c is responsible for baseband filtering. In coherent mode for AM
two filters are applied and the output filtered functions are baseb_raw
and baseb_carrier. The spectrum can be expanded and zoomed to allow
very narrow bantwidths for the carrier filter.

Also in mix2.c the phase of baseb_carrier is used to twist the phase
of baseb_raw and store the output in baseb which then has all its
energy in the I channel and nothing in the Q channel for a pure AM
signal. (The Q channel is helpful in hearing other stations on the
same frequency.)

When using coherent detect it is a good idea to apply a notch on the
carrier for the baseb_raw signal. (In Linrad one can apply up to 9
notches in the baseband filter for the baseb_raw signal.
The notch would remove the low frequency beat between several
carriers. Linrad uses independent AGC functions for I and Q in
coherent mode. They are derived from the audio, not from the
carrier amplitude.

A DXer would use the mode Coh2 with I and Q in the left and right
audio channel. Then head-phones are essential, loudspeakers
would not provide the phase-correct signals to both ears.
For normal listening to an AM transmission for which selective
fading occasionally produces distortion it would be perfectly
fine to use loudspeakers. Selective fading means multipath and
there may be plenty of signal in the Q channel. In cases where
the phase between sidebands is essentially correct one can
use Coh3 mode to send the I channel to both loudspeakers.
That would improve S/N by about 3 dB.

When several stations are on the same channel one can use a wide
carrier filter that will let all carriers through. Then the
Coh3 mode should be equivalent to conventional SAM.

73

Leif / SM5BSZ

>
>
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
> http://sdr-radio.com
>
>
>
> From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...]
> On Behalf Of Leif Asbrink
> Sent: 13 June 2010 01:21
> To: sdr-radio-com@...
> Subject: Re: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP > future SDR Console>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> > I amen what Chris said. From what I have read there is a difference in
> ECSS
> > and SAM....I like the ECSS the best. There are times AM is needed. I don't
> > think you need both SAM and ECSS. A OK with bandwidth comments. To have
> > ECSS choose both, and either of the upper or lower is helpful.
>
> There is another alternative, that is "coherent processing" as I have
> implemented in Linrad. It is SAM where the user can select which carrier
> he wants to use as the reference for his synchronous detection.
> It is more difficult to use, but I think it will allow reception
> of things that can otherwise not be heard.
>
> To get an idea, have a look here:
>
> http://www.sm5bsz.com/lir/am640/am640.htm
>
> http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/kari/kari.htm
>
> 73
>
>
>
>
>


Simon HB9DRV <simon@...>
 

Is there a need for SSB > 4kHz? What do the ESSB boys use?

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of David Messing
 

I amen what Chris said.  From what I have read there is a difference in ECSS and SAM....I like the ECSS the best.  There are times AM is needed.  I don't think you need both SAM and ECSS.  A OK with bandwidth comments.  To have ECSS choose both, and either  of the upper or lower is helpful.


Mike
 

Simon:

 

I have learned when “talking” with you to discern exactly what you mean.  It is a paradigm shift for me to think of bandwidth in audio bandwidth instead of RF, at least when dealing with radio.  If you are talking pure audio bandwidth, from either sideband, 6 kHz would be a good thing for fidelity.  Most of the coherence in speech can be determined in 4, but if one is using ECSS on a broadcast station, a tunable audio passband up to 6 kHz would be useful for say identifying interval signals, signature tunes, and identification announcements.

 

Friendly Regards,

 

Mike

 

Mike Gilchrist

Disruptive Technologist

Advanced Wireless Express

P.O. Box 255

Toledo, IA   52342

Mike's Weekly Column

239.770.6203

mike@...

 


From: sdr-radio-com@... [mailto:sdr-radio-com@...] On Behalf Of Simon HB9DRV
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:49 AM
To: sdr-radio-com@...
Subject: RE: [sdr-radio-com] Re: 2MHz Bandwidth with SDR-IP

 

 

Is there a need for SSB > 4kHz? What do the ESSB boys use?

 

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

http://sdr-radio.com

 

From: sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sdr-radio-com@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Messing
 

I amen what Chris said.  From what I have read there is a difference in ECSS and SAM....I like the ECSS the best.  There are times AM is needed.  I don't think you need both SAM and ECSS.  A OK with bandwidth comments.  To have ECSS choose both, and either  of the upper or lower is helpful.