Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift


floroy42@...
 

Hello OMs,

it is possible with SDR Radio to lock on a signal (like AFC with FM) and receive with an second VFO another signal in USB which follows the lock on the first signal?

The problem is that the used LNBs for reception of EsHail2 Sat often drift several 100Hz in a few minutes.

On the narrow band HAM transponder two frequency-stable beacons are planned on the lower and upper band edge.

If you can lock to one of these beacons und demodulate any SSB signal between those following the drift of the beacons you won't have to retune every few seconds.

Anyone an idea?

vy73 DB8TF




Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

The answer is no. I’ll be on Es’Hail 2 myself, so will look at the LNB issue once I have a dish and LNB organised. There will be some Doppler even though Es’Hail 2 is a GEO satellite.

 

As soon as Es’Hail 2 has been commissioned I’ll get a dish ordered and look at this issue.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI
www.sdr-radio.com

 

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of floroy42@...
Sent: 26 December 2018 14:20
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

Hello OMs,

it is possible with SDR Radio to lock on a signal (like AFC with FM) and receive with an second VFO another signal in USB which follows the lock on the first signal?

The problem is that the used LNBs for reception of EsHail2 Sat often drift several 100Hz in a few minutes.

On the narrow band HAM transponder two frequency-stable beacons are planned on the lower and upper band edge.

If you can lock to one of these beacons und demodulate any SSB signal between those following the drift of the beacons you won't have to retune every few seconds.

Anyone an idea?

vy73 DB8TF



Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

Hi,

For SSB, you must lock the TCXO of LNB to the GPS signal.

If people are interested, I'm selling LNB's modified given chance to received the DATV signal.


File attached.

73 Laurent / F4AAR.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : mercredi, décembre 26, 2018 11:31 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Hello OMs,

it is possible with SDR Radio to lock on a signal (like AFC with FM) and receive with an second VFO another signal in USB which follows the lock on the first signal?

The problem is that the used LNBs for reception of EsHail2 Sat often drift several 100Hz in a few minutes.

On the narrow band HAM transponder two frequency-stable beacons are planned on the lower and upper band edge.

If you can lock to one of these beacons und demodulate any SSB signal between those following the drift of the beacons you won't have to retune every few seconds.

Anyone an idea?

vy73 DB8TF




floroy42@...
 

Hello Simon,

thanks for your answer.

I already using a SW solution with 2 RTL SDR sticks and the results outperform any GPSDO or TCXO by far ;)
No modificated LNB is needed, will work with a normal cheap PLL LNB.

The only drawback with my actual solution is that you need 2 PCs, 2 RTL SDRs and a small controller circuit.

As the Sat is now in IOT the demand for a stable RX is rising and SDR Radio could be the first SW that offers that SW correction.

vy 73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

Without LNB modified ..... you will lost too much gain ............




De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 6:30 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Hello Simon,

thanks for your answer.

I already using a SW solution with 2 RTL SDR sticks and the results outperform any GPSDO or TCXO by far ;)
No modificated LNB is needed, will work with a normal cheap PLL LNB.

The only drawback with my actual solution is that you need 2 PCs, 2 RTL SDRs and a small controller circuit.

As the Sat is now in IOT the demand for a stable RX is rising and SDR Radio could be the first SW that offers that SW correction.

vy 73 DB8TF


floroy42@...
 

Hello Laurent,

the drift compensation with use of a stable beacon in the RTL SDR bandwith has nothing to do with the gain of the system.

I know that many people want to sell modified LNBs but i have already clearly proven that the sw stabilization is far the best
and cheapest solution to that drift problem, At least for receiving the SSB signals in the narrow band.

For DATV a modified LNB is indeed needed.

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

" I already using a SW solution with 2 RTL SDR sticks and the results outperform any GPSDO or TCXO by far ;) ....... "

How possible to write that ???? With low performances crystals inside RTL SDR .....

73 Laurent F4AAR.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de Mr VILLAIN Laurent <f4aar@...>
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 6:37 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io; main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Without LNB modified ..... you will lost too much gain ............




De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 6:30 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Hello Simon,

thanks for your answer.

I already using a SW solution with 2 RTL SDR sticks and the results outperform any GPSDO or TCXO by far ;)
No modificated LNB is needed, will work with a normal cheap PLL LNB.

The only drawback with my actual solution is that you need 2 PCs, 2 RTL SDRs and a small controller circuit.

As the Sat is now in IOT the demand for a stable RX is rising and SDR Radio could be the first SW that offers that SW correction.

vy 73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 


Hi,

Sorry ..... what is your IF output frequency ? 

Your message is wrong from beginning until end ...

73 Laurent / F4AAR.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 6:48 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Hello Laurent,

the drift compensation with use of a stable beacon in the RTL SDR bandwith has nothing to do with the gain of the system.

I know that many people want to sell modified LNBs but i have already clearly proven that the sw stabilization is far the best
and cheapest solution to that drift problem, At least for receiving the SSB signals in the narrow band.

For DATV a modified LNB is indeed needed.

vy73 DB8TF


floroy42@...
 

Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

What is the stability of the GPS ???

Answer : 

What is stability of your TCXO's ? 0,5 ppm .... 

Please check DL3YC idea !!!!!

Check the gain lost of the OTSLO at low IF frequency ....

73 Laurent.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 6:57 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


Matthias Bopp
 

Dear Florian and Laurent,

 

no need to fight.

 

Both concepts have their place and will work.

 

I like the way Florian is addressing the problem with a closed loop concept measuring the received beacon frequency and adjusting the received frequency of other signals from the same transponder.

 

It would be perfect to have this feature in SDR-Radio as no additional hardware/software would be needed.

 

Possibly with a wide bandwidth SDR like the LimeSDR only one SDR is needed to do this. As SDR-Radio can already have multiple receivers within the

Bandwidth of the SDR this might be not too difficult for Simon to implement once he finds the time.

 

Best regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von floroy42@...
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2018 10:57
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

No fight, just discussion. Hi hi !

73 to all. Laurent.




On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 7:06 PM +0900, "Matthias Bopp" <matthias.bopp@...> wrote:

Dear Florian and Laurent,

 

no need to fight.

 

Both concepts have their place and will work.

 

I like the way Florian is addressing the problem with a closed loop concept measuring the received beacon frequency and adjusting the received frequency of other signals from the same transponder.

 

It would be perfect to have this feature in SDR-Radio as no additional hardware/software would be needed.

 

Possibly with a wide bandwidth SDR like the LimeSDR only one SDR is needed to do this. As SDR-Radio can already have multiple receivers within the

Bandwidth of the SDR this might be not too difficult for Simon to implement once he finds the time.

 

Best regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von floroy42@...
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2018 10:57
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


floroy42@...
 

Hi Matthias & Laurent,

@laurent. if you have observed the IOT tests of the NB transponder on EH2 Sat you have seen that the floor signal of the transponder was well over the noise floor of the receiver (abt 10-15db) and that means that gain is not an issues (at least you use a dish bigger than 30cm ;).

and the NewGen TCXO RTL SDRs have after a few minutes of warming up close to 0 drift. I have this system here for weeks running and proven many times that the software correction is working flawless (and even better than GPSDO stabilized).

This solution is clearly ONLY for the SSB NB receiving!, For DATV you need an modified LNB.

I came along a lot of OMs which doubt the performance of this sw correction and ANYONE of then who tried for themselves was exited of the performance.

Now the goal is to get this working with only one RTL SDR and implemented in some software like RTL Radio.
Then you can also use a "normal" RTL SDR without any TCXO, the software will correct any drift.

vy73 DB8TF



Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

The best solution for SSB is DL3YC idea.

You could see on his blog. Its the optimal one.

In all cases your 0,5 ppm TCXO's or crystals will be under the GPS signal in all cases.

Without modification of LNB, you will lost IF gain too, if not, lets share a spectrum capture.

Warm 73, no fight, just discuss. Laurent.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de Mr VILLAIN Laurent <f4aar@...>
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 7:07 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io; main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
No fight, just discussion. Hi hi !

73 to all. Laurent.




On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 7:06 PM +0900, "Matthias Bopp" <matthias.bopp@...> wrote:

Dear Florian and Laurent,

 

no need to fight.

 

Both concepts have their place and will work.

 

I like the way Florian is addressing the problem with a closed loop concept measuring the received beacon frequency and adjusting the received frequency of other signals from the same transponder.

 

It would be perfect to have this feature in SDR-Radio as no additional hardware/software would be needed.

 

Possibly with a wide bandwidth SDR like the LimeSDR only one SDR is needed to do this. As SDR-Radio can already have multiple receivers within the

Bandwidth of the SDR this might be not too difficult for Simon to implement once he finds the time.

 

Best regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>Im Auftrag von floroy42@...
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2018 10:57
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

So you must send it to the space ..... to replace Hydrogen Maser or Rubidium clocks on board of GPS satellites...... Im sure it will a cost effective solution to make new GPS satellites ....

""" and the NewGen TCXO RTL SDRs have after a few minutes of warming up close to 0 drift. I have this system here for weeks running and proven many times that the software correction is working flawless (and even better than GPSDO stabilized)."""""



De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 7:19 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
Hi Matthias & Laurent,

@laurent. if you have observed the IOT tests of the NB transponder on EH2 Sat you have seen that the floor signal of the transponder was well over the noise floor of the receiver (abt 10-15db) and that means that gain is not an issues (at least you use a dish bigger than 30cm ;).

and the NewGen TCXO RTL SDRs have after a few minutes of warming up close to 0 drift. I have this system here for weeks running and proven many times that the software correction is working flawless (and even better than GPSDO stabilized).

This solution is clearly ONLY for the SSB NB receiving!, For DATV you need an modified LNB.

I came along a lot of OMs which doubt the performance of this sw correction and ANYONE of then who tried for themselves was exited of the performance.

Now the goal is to get this working with only one RTL SDR and implemented in some software like RTL Radio.
Then you can also use a "normal" RTL SDR without any TCXO, the software will correct any drift.

vy73 DB8TF



floroy42@...
 

I have seen some signals which where stabilized with GPSDO and they still have a little drift of a few Hz.

My solution uses the beacon signals from the sat an eliminates any doppler or other effects that may appear.

Believe it or not, GPSDO is more expensive and has slightly more drift than the sw correction.

But clearly both systems work excellent for SSB. Only the modification of the LNB won't be needed and costs of a GPSDO could be saved.

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

What doppler ????? Its a GEO sat .... there is NO Doppler !!!!!

Believe it or not, GPSDO is more expensive and has slightly more drift than the sw correction = I guess a joke ?

73 Laurent. F4AAR.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 7:29 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
I have seen some signals which where stabilized with GPSDO and they still have a little drift of a few Hz.

My solution uses the beacon signals from the sat an eliminates any doppler or other effects that may appear.

Believe it or not, GPSDO is more expensive and has slightly more drift than the sw correction.

But clearly both systems work excellent for SSB. Only the modification of the LNB won't be needed and costs of a GPSDO could be saved.

vy73 DB8TF


floroy42@...
 

I see you DON'T want to understand or believe it.

Someday you will see that it works perfectly.

So long...

vy73 DB8TF


Matthias Bopp
 

Hi Laurant,

 

As you have requested here is a spectrum sweep of a unmodified dual Octagon PLL LNB. LO was 9750 Mhz.

 

As you can see the gain at 600 MHz drops by about 5dB (roughly).

 

I assume this is the frequency response of the IF chain and as the LNB has plenty of gain I don’t think it is a real problem.

 

It is different if the frequency response (high pass characteristic) is based on the amplifiers in front of the mixer as then total system noise figure should be impacted.

 

Nevertheless I changed the reference of my LNB to move the IF signals up above 1 GHz and also use a TCXO.

 

Here is a description of the modification I made:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bp61phg1e2vihun/Feed%20fuer%20EsHail-2%200v3.pdf?dl=0

 

Best regards

 

Matthias

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Mr VILLAIN Laurent
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2018 11:20
An: main@sdr-radio.groups.io; main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

The best solution for SSB is DL3YC idea.

 

You could see on his blog. Its the optimal one.

 

In all cases your 0,5 ppm TCXO's or crystals will be under the GPS signal in all cases.

 

Without modification of LNB, you will lost IF gain too, if not, lets share a spectrum capture.

 

Warm 73, no fight, just discuss. Laurent.

 


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de Mr VILLAIN Laurent <f4aar@...>
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 7:07 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io; main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

No fight, just discussion. Hi hi !

 

73 to all. Laurent.

 



On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 7:06 PM +0900, "Matthias Bopp" <matthias.bopp@...> wrote:

Dear Florian and Laurent,

 

no need to fight.

 

Both concepts have their place and will work.

 

I like the way Florian is addressing the problem with a closed loop concept measuring the received beacon frequency and adjusting the received frequency of other signals from the same transponder.

 

It would be perfect to have this feature in SDR-Radio as no additional hardware/software would be needed.

 

Possibly with a wide bandwidth SDR like the LimeSDR only one SDR is needed to do this. As SDR-Radio can already have multiple receivers within the

Bandwidth of the SDR this might be not too difficult for Simon to implement once he finds the time.

 

Best regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>Im Auftrag von floroy42@...
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2018 10:57
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift

 

Clearly you don't understand what is meant.

I use 2 New.Gen RTL SDR sticks with TCXO 0,5 PPM and 2 PCs.

And this setup keeps ANY signal from the same sat within 10Hz FOR A DAY. 

With a unmodified Octagon OTSLO

vy73 DB8TF


Mr VILLAIN Laurent
 

73 in all cases. Laurent.


De : main@sdr-radio.groups.io de la part de floroy42@...
Envoyé : jeudi, décembre 27, 2018 7:38 PM
À : main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Objet : Re: [SDR-Radio] Es Hail 2 LNB Antidrift
 
I see you DON'T want to understand or believe it.

Someday you will see that it works perfectly.

So long...

vy73 DB8TF