Date   

Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

C. van Ravenswaaij
 

Hi Simon,

Upon receiving a PI code in Console with or without accompanied PS information, I do a search action in FMLIST -> myFM (free account necessary, login required) with filtering on frequency, type of propagation, PI code (more filtering available) to identify the received station.
If this process could be incorporated and automated by Console that would speed up the amount of loggings per minute. In Es propagation a welcome feature, especially when used with multiple subreceivers in combination with RDS Logfile.
Just dreaming, that's all....

73, Cornel


Op 21-6-2021 om 14:04 schreef Simon Brown:

I have no idea.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of C. van Ravenswaaij
Sent: 21 June 2021 12:13
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Eric, Simon,

Is this the same logic which is incorporated in FMList by Günther Lorenz?
https://www.fmlist.org

73, Cornel

Op 21-6-2021 om 06:59 schreef Simon Brown:

OK

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Inloes
Sent: 21 June 2021 00:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for all the hard work!

I do have some I/Q recordings of a ES opening to Canada from the west coast of the US if that helps. They do decode PI codes. Some of them are quite strong. That triggered this feature request :)

I'll try get a post over there when I can. 

Thanks!


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Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Simon Brown
 

I have no idea.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of C. van Ravenswaaij
Sent: 21 June 2021 12:13
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Eric, Simon,

Is this the same logic which is incorporated in FMList by Günther Lorenz?
https://www.fmlist.org

73, Cornel

Op 21-6-2021 om 06:59 schreef Simon Brown:

OK

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Inloes
Sent: 21 June 2021 00:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for all the hard work!

I do have some I/Q recordings of a ES opening to Canada from the west coast of the US if that helps. They do decode PI codes. Some of them are quite strong. That triggered this feature request :)

I'll try get a post over there when I can. 

Thanks!


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Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

C. van Ravenswaaij
 

Hi Eric, Simon,

Is this the same logic which is incorporated in FMList by Günther Lorenz?
https://www.fmlist.org

73, Cornel


Op 21-6-2021 om 06:59 schreef Simon Brown:

OK

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Inloes
Sent: 21 June 2021 00:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for all the hard work!

I do have some I/Q recordings of a ES opening to Canada from the west coast of the US if that helps. They do decode PI codes. Some of them are quite strong. That triggered this feature request :)

I'll try get a post over there when I can. 

Thanks!


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Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Simon Brown
 

OK

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Inloes
Sent: 21 June 2021 00:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for all the hard work!

I do have some I/Q recordings of a ES opening to Canada from the west coast of the US if that helps. They do decode PI codes. Some of them are quite strong. That triggered this feature request :)

I'll try get a post over there when I can. 

Thanks!


--
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Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Eric Inloes
 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for all the hard work!

I do have some I/Q recordings of a ES opening to Canada from the west coast of the US if that helps. They do decode PI codes. Some of them are quite strong. That triggered this feature request :)

I'll try get a post over there when I can. 

Thanks!


Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Simon Brown
 

Yes,

 

Would be best as it’s then logged. I would have to know whether we have a Canadian station or USA station, I suspect this could cause confusion. I don’t have time right now, if I do later then I’ll need some Canadian recordings to I can see what we’re dealing with.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: 20 June 2021 10:08
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

 

Hi Eric

You might be better posting this in "Requests" on the main support forum:

https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/viewforum.php?f=53

73

Max


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Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Simon Brown
 

Hi Paul,

 

If recording to hard disk then that disk really must be dedicated to recording and nothing else. Better is a RAID or SSD.

 

I should not allow the Display bandwidth option if it’s > 5 MHz.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: 20 June 2021 08:42
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Sorry I've not replied sooner due to a mix of too much work, too much prop and the weather not playing ball meaning things have been unplugged and grounded.

This is where things get a bit odd! When I first spoke to Jim about the issue then posted here I was able to recreate it at will until I ran SW2 software to do a similar test. After that Console recordings have been working as they should with playback sounding just as good as listening live. I've no idea what's going on with that so unless I can get the problem to reoccur there's little point wasting too much time over something as intermittent and puzzling as this one.

With regard to your video Simon what you can see are the strongest signals and the only ones that remain audible through the overload. This video I took when the problem was occuring shows what you should be able to see and hear. You'll hear the advert playing at the start until I switch on the software preamp at which point it disappears into the overload (this was being recorded). At 29 seconds I playback the same timeframe and at 49 seconds is the moment I switched on the preamp during the recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoB2blGtPsg

Like Jim I was getting errors with the narrower bandwidth, I tried it to reduce the amount of data being written to the SATAIII drive and it dropped it from 98MB/s to around 77MB/s but caused errors  of 'too much queued data'. However, I was sent a copy of V.3.0.28 and that problem didn't occur but I did notice some out of band aliasing that varied depending on my frequency settings so I've reverted back to recording the full bandwidth.

Paul


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Re: Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Max
 

Hi Eric

You might be better posting this in "Requests" on the main support forum:

https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/viewforum.php?f=53

73

Max


Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Paul
 

Sorry I've not replied sooner due to a mix of too much work, too much prop and the weather not playing ball meaning things have been unplugged and grounded.

This is where things get a bit odd! When I first spoke to Jim about the issue then posted here I was able to recreate it at will until I ran SW2 software to do a similar test. After that Console recordings have been working as they should with playback sounding just as good as listening live. I've no idea what's going on with that so unless I can get the problem to reoccur there's little point wasting too much time over something as intermittent and puzzling as this one.

With regard to your video Simon what you can see are the strongest signals and the only ones that remain audible through the overload. This video I took when the problem was occuring shows what you should be able to see and hear. You'll hear the advert playing at the start until I switch on the software preamp at which point it disappears into the overload (this was being recorded). At 29 seconds I playback the same timeframe and at 49 seconds is the moment I switched on the preamp during the recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoB2blGtPsg

Like Jim I was getting errors with the narrower bandwidth, I tried it to reduce the amount of data being written to the SATAIII drive and it dropped it from 98MB/s to around 77MB/s but caused errors  of 'too much queued data'. However, I was sent a copy of V.3.0.28 and that problem didn't occur but I did notice some out of band aliasing that varied depending on my frequency settings so I've reverted back to recording the full bandwidth.

Paul



Re: Transverter for HL2 etc.w

Mike N1JEZ
 

As Simon stated, decimation does make a difference.

Example attached. (processing gain)

On Jun 19, 2021, at 1:26 AM, Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:

After decimation the ENOB is much higher.

Simon Brown, G4ELI
--
73,
Mike, N1JEZ
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"


Re: Transverter for HL2 etc.w

Larry Dodd
 

Bill
There is a significant difference between 12 bits and 16 bits in many ways. You may not hear the difference on a particular station depending on your sound card and audio reproduction capability. You can even see the difference in the spectrum. Just depends on your particular needs. 
Larry

On Jun 19, 2021, at 1:26 AM, Simon Brown <simon@...> wrote:



After decimation the ENOB is much higher.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Cox
Sent: 18 June 2021 14:04
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


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Re: Transverter for HL2 etc.

Simon Brown
 

After decimation the ENOB is much higher.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Cox
Sent: 18 June 2021 14:04
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Transverter for HL2 etc.

 

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


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Re: Transverter for HL2 etc.

jdow
 

I am not sure you can find an FM transmitter that good, a ham "studio" that quiet, or a path offering that demodulated instantaneous SNR. With a modulated signal your ears will generally not be able to hear an instantaneous SINAD over 40 dB or less. This is why most existing audio compression schemes work,

But, I think that's not what you meant. Nonetheless it is an interesting factoid that my particular ear problems taught me a lot about.

Yes, information is present in the averages of signal transitions. You can decimate signals down or look in FFT bins well below the 14 bits nominal dynamic range due to this averaging effect. Think of a signal that is maybe 6.5 bits peak to peak. Riding with it is a signal half a bit peak to peak. If they both are perfectly built around zero sometimes the A/D converter will read 7 bits, 6 bits, or even 5 bits. The weak signal comes out of that bit jitter. (That may be a poorly constructed example. But the essence is there. I have to get ready for some talks with my realtor.)

{^_^}

On 20210618 06:03:32, Bill Cox wrote:

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


Canada FMBC PI code decoding support? #feature

Eric Inloes
 

Hi,

I'm curious how hard it would be to implement this feature. Also would it conflict with the current setup? 

With that said Industry Canada posted this that supposedly has the algorithm  https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf08741.html

Thanks!


Re: Processor requirements for tablet

allen KC2KLC
 

The Afedri LAN-IQ is above my budget level, and the Belka appears to be feature-poor. The Malahit seems to be an interesting alternative, albeit with some serious caveats (judging by the discussion at the link David Taylor provided). I'm going to continue to take my time to render a final determination as to exactly what setup will best suit my needs and my budget. Thanks again to all for the valuable feedback and I look forward to any additional advice that may be relevant.


Re: Transverter for HL2 etc.

Bill Cox <waywardgeek@...>
 

        "HL2 is 12 bits, so we’re looking at ~74 dB dynamic range."

That's not quite how it works, IIUC.  For example, an HL2 broadcasting CW in a quiet band to a neighbor might have significantly higher SNR than 74 db.  IIUC, for SSB, the 12-bit D/A will limit the clarity of the voice, but given our 2.5KHz bandwidth, I'm not confident I could tell.  IIUC, the SNR meter compares the signal strength to noise in adjacent frequencies, so it doesn't measure D/A noise in the broadcast signal.  Can anyone out there hear the difference in a broadcast with 16-bit SDR SSB vs 12-bit?  Does anyone see differences in SNR readings?


Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Simon Brown
 

Now then,

 

A quick look at the code tells me I could throw two threads at this so after lunch I’ll give it a go.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Smith G0OFE
Sent: 18 June 2021 12:44
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Can only assume he did what I did, and recorded the "display" width. I found this saved 14% on disk space, but led to recording errors which I have documented before.

================================
Need help with SDR Console? If you have a problem:
Go to https://www.sdr-radio.com/support
Please follow instructions in that link.
===================================
Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. IO90BR.
Elad FDM-S2, Airspy HF+, SDRPlay and Funcube Dongle SDR Recievers
8-element OP-DES for Band 2, 8-element LFA for 2m, 3-element LFA for 6m, 20m Windom for HF,. Wellbrook 1530 Loop for LF

On 18/06/2021 10:19, Simon Brown wrote:

Paul,

 

How did you manage a 20.8MHz bandwidth with the S3? How did you select this? AFAIK this is not a native sample rate.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: 17 June 2021 18:06
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Simon, was the IQ file of any use in tracking down the problem?


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Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Simon Brown
 

Ah,

 

That’s how it’s done 😊 . Yes, could well have caused errors, running at that rate the decimation probably couldn’t keep up.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Smith G0OFE
Sent: 18 June 2021 12:44
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Can only assume he did what I did, and recorded the "display" width. I found this saved 14% on disk space, but led to recording errors which I have documented before.

================================
Need help with SDR Console? If you have a problem:
Go to https://www.sdr-radio.com/support
Please follow instructions in that link.
===================================
Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. IO90BR.
Elad FDM-S2, Airspy HF+, SDRPlay and Funcube Dongle SDR Recievers
8-element OP-DES for Band 2, 8-element LFA for 2m, 3-element LFA for 6m, 20m Windom for HF,. Wellbrook 1530 Loop for LF

On 18/06/2021 10:19, Simon Brown wrote:

Paul,

 

How did you manage a 20.8MHz bandwidth with the S3? How did you select this? AFAIK this is not a native sample rate.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: 17 June 2021 18:06
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Simon, was the IQ file of any use in tracking down the problem?


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Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Jim Smith G0OFE
 

Can only assume he did what I did, and recorded the "display" width. I found this saved 14% on disk space, but led to recording errors which I have documented before.

================================
Need help with SDR Console? If you have a problem:
Go to https://www.sdr-radio.com/support
Please follow instructions in that link.
===================================
Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. IO90BR.
Elad FDM-S2, Airspy HF+, SDRPlay and Funcube Dongle SDR Recievers
8-element OP-DES for Band 2, 8-element LFA for 2m, 3-element LFA for 6m, 20m Windom for HF,. Wellbrook 1530 Loop for LF


On 18/06/2021 10:19, Simon Brown wrote:

Paul,

 

How did you manage a 20.8MHz bandwidth with the S3? How did you select this? AFAIK this is not a native sample rate.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: 17 June 2021 18:06
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Simon, was the IQ file of any use in tracking down the problem?


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Re: Elad S3 recording bug

Simon Brown
 

Paul,

 

How did you manage a 20.8MHz bandwidth with the S3? How did you select this? AFAIK this is not a native sample rate.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: 17 June 2021 18:06
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Elad S3 recording bug

 

Simon, was the IQ file of any use in tracking down the problem?


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