Date   

Re: My Computer Drifts!

Conrad, PA5Y
 

If I recall correctly, Simon just wanted to correct a drifting PC clock using his existing hardware. Probably as a reference for recording or maybe decoding with one of the many digital modes in common use. I don't recall him expressing any interest in becoming a time nut ūüėä

 

My pragmatic approach is that Meinberg NTP server provides adequate performance for both scenarios without adding any hardware. It also serves me well for my EME operating.

 

So, I will stick with that, and I suspect most users will do the same.

 

However, it is an interesting topic.

 

Regards

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J Taylor via groups.io
Sent: 04 June 2022 11:25
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] My Computer Drifts!

 

On 04/06/2022 08:31, Dirk wrote:

> David, talking about GPS:

> With NTP alone you can reach a time deviation in the lower millisecond range.

> Using only the GPS time information you CAN reach a time deviation

> also in the low double-digit millisecond range, if GPS hardware and

> software can be told to decode only ONE NMEA sentence.

> With GPS alone or with NTP plus GPS you CAN reach a time deviation in

> the microsecond range, using certain GPS hardware.

> If you e.g. read the Meinberg documentation, the use of the GPS *PPS

> signal* is described in detail. With the PPS signal the beginning of

> each second can be detected.

 

Dirk,

 

I think may Linux users would be disappointed to get low milliseconds from NTP

- and Windows makes it much more difficult (although better with Windows 8 and later).  The problem with GPS alone is that while you may get a low deviation, that deviation is referenced to other than UTC - certainly having a single NMEA sentence and high baud rate can help.  I've seen differences in excess of a second!

 

GPS alone is not good enough for microsecond deviation, you must have PPS as well.  A GPS over USB, for example, does not typically have a PPS signal, and even if it does it subject to the USB polling rate (125 microseconds).

 

Getting good results can depend on pot luck, to a degree, as different network cards and drivers influence the results.  Just for interest:

 

Windows stratum-1 PPS-synced PCs:

   https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows-stratum-1

 

Windows (& Linux) synced over the LAN from stratum-1 servers

   https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows

 

Cheers,

David

--

SatSignal Software - Quality software for you

Web: https://www.satsignal.eu

Email: david-taylor@...

Twitter: @gm8arv

 

 

 

 


Satellite tracking is not tracking.

David Coles
 

Can I delete all Keplers and start over again?
If so, how so please?
Receiving NOAA Wx sats on entered frequencies is a joy.
73 Dave G7GZC


Re: My Computer Drifts!

Dirk
 
Edited

David,
thank you! You mainly confirm what I wrote.
I use a GPS module with PPS output and a RS232 converter, PPS connected to a serial handshake line.
Of course my PC has a real (hardware) RS232 interface.


Re: My Computer Drifts!

David J Taylor
 

On 04/06/2022 08:31, Dirk wrote:
David, talking about GPS:
With NTP alone you can reach a time deviation in the lower millisecond range.
Using only the GPS time information you CAN reach a time deviation also in the
low double-digit millisecond range, if GPS hardware and software can be told to
decode only ONE NMEA sentence.
With GPS alone or with NTP plus GPS you CAN reach a time deviation in the
microsecond range, using certain GPS hardware.
If you e.g. read the Meinberg documentation, the use of the GPS *PPS signal* is
described in detail. With the PPS signal the beginning of each second can be
detected.
Dirk,

I think may Linux users would be disappointed to get low milliseconds from NTP
- and Windows makes it much more difficult (although better with Windows 8 and
later). The problem with GPS alone is that while you may get a low deviation,
that deviation is referenced to other than UTC - certainly having a single NMEA
sentence and high baud rate can help. I've seen differences in excess of a second!

GPS alone is not good enough for microsecond deviation, you must have PPS as
well. A GPS over USB, for example, does not typically have a PPS signal, and
even if it does it subject to the USB polling rate (125 microseconds).

Getting good results can depend on pot luck, to a degree, as different network
cards and drivers influence the results. Just for interest:

Windows stratum-1 PPS-synced PCs:
https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows-stratum-1

Windows (& Linux) synced over the LAN from stratum-1 servers
https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_ntp.php#windows

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: World Map 1.2.9

Simon Brown
 

So,

Running a test - if it correctly picks up the next value change I'll make 1.3.10 available today.


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown via groups.io <simon@...>
Sent: 04 June 2022 08:33
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
So,

Seems to work, see attachment.

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown via groups.io <simon@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 23:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
OK, looks quite easy. Will take a look tomorrow morning.

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Cormac, EI4HQ via groups.io <ei4hq.mail@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 22:11
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
Hi Simon,

Thanks for v1.2.9, in particular for adding bearing & distance display for stations, a very useful feature addition. I use World Map a lot for Navtex DX activities as it provides a neat way to display pretty much all that's needed; the stations, time, terminator and space weather data. I maintain a Navtex station data suite for the Navtex DX community and I've been including World Map 490 and 518 Navtex station files as part of it for a while now.

A feature request if I could be so forward; any chance you might consider adding the real time Dst index to the propagation info. provided; https://wdc.kugi.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dst_realtime/presentmonth/index.html? It's a useful propagation pointer for those of us who DX below 1MHz (NDBs, Navtex, MW & LW broadcasting, that sort of thing). When the Dst spikes upwards, that can be an early warning of a subsequent drop/plunge into -ve Dst figures that often means MW propagation is in trouble. The deeper the dive into -ve territory, the more trouble we're in. On the other hand, all other things being equal a relatively stable Dst hovering around zero is generally a good thing for <1MHz propagation.

Thanks!

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: World Map 1.2.9

Simon Brown
 

So,

Seems to work, see attachment.


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown via groups.io <simon@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 23:05
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
OK, looks quite easy. Will take a look tomorrow morning.

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Cormac, EI4HQ via groups.io <ei4hq.mail@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 22:11
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
Hi Simon,

Thanks for v1.2.9, in particular for adding bearing & distance display for stations, a very useful feature addition. I use World Map a lot for Navtex DX activities as it provides a neat way to display pretty much all that's needed; the stations, time, terminator and space weather data. I maintain a Navtex station data suite for the Navtex DX community and I've been including World Map 490 and 518 Navtex station files as part of it for a while now.

A feature request if I could be so forward; any chance you might consider adding the real time Dst index to the propagation info. provided; https://wdc.kugi.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dst_realtime/presentmonth/index.html? It's a useful propagation pointer for those of us who DX below 1MHz (NDBs, Navtex, MW & LW broadcasting, that sort of thing). When the Dst spikes upwards, that can be an early warning of a subsequent drop/plunge into -ve Dst figures that often means MW propagation is in trouble. The deeper the dive into -ve territory, the more trouble we're in. On the other hand, all other things being equal a relatively stable Dst hovering around zero is generally a good thing for <1MHz propagation.

Thanks!

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: My Computer Drifts!

Dirk
 

David, talking about GPS:
With NTP alone you can reach a time deviation in the lower millisecond range.
Using only the GPS time information you CAN reach a time deviation also in the low double-digit millisecond range, if GPS hardware and software can be told to decode only ONE NMEA sentence.
With GPS alone or with NTP plus GPS you CAN reach a time deviation in the microsecond range, using certain GPS hardware.
If you e.g. read the Meinberg documentation, the use of the GPS PPS signal is described in detail. With the PPS signal the beginning of each second can be detected.


Re: My Computer Drifts!

jdow
 

Do you know how NTP works or only think you know?

{o.o}   Just askin'

On 20220603 13:07:06, BobS via groups.io wrote:

But I'm not talkng about NTP. My point is still valid. Using a GPS is trivial and it suffers from far less latency compared to NTP.


Re: My Computer Drifts!

David J Taylor
 

On 03/06/2022 21:07, BobS via groups.io wrote:
But I'm not talkng about NTP. My point is still valid. Using a GPS is trivial
and it suffers from far less latency compared to NTP.
Bob,

You need to be careful about your choice of servers for any timekeeping
software. Don't use servers a continent away, and try to use the "best" server
available to you. Reference NTP and the pool servers do all this automatically.

The typical GPS does not output UTC, but a variable length serial message, so
you won't be syncing your PC to UTC but something hundreds of milliseconds
later than UTC. Better than nothing, yes, but...

Best, if you can, take out that Raspberry Pi you left in the drawer years back
and add a simple GPS/PPS device to it, run reference NTP, and you'll have
something much, much better than either Internet-based servers or a serial-only
GPS.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: SDR's For Sale. Maybe Other Equipment, Antenna, ETC.

John
 

Hi Sigi, 

Apologies for messaging you out of the blue, but I haven't had a chance to ask you yet if you were interested in the Hermes Lite 2 I mentioned in the group.

After doing the sums and converting from dollars to pounds I think its cost me between about ¬£290/¬£310 plus the shipping cost, with exchange rates being all over the place thats probably something like $360/$395 dollars and between about ‚ā¨335/‚ā¨360 euros.¬†
 
 I'm not looking to make crazy money on my Hermes Lite 2 like I know that some of the guys in various groups are doing Sigi. You have probably seen it in some of the groups where they have popped up in groups at over a hundred dollars more than the cost of a new one from makerfabs. 

I am only asking or looking to get the same amount of money that I paid for it. Its a standard Hermes Lite 2 with the N2ADR filter board fitted and in the standard 40mm enclosure. Using it with Simon's sdr console side by side with my icom ic-7300 and on the same antenna I'd honestly say it is every bit as good as my icom and a couple of times using Simon's software it pulled a couple of signals out of the noise that my icom was struggling with. 

Anyway Sigi, Apologies again for messaging you out of the blue and sorry to trouble you. If you're interested in the Hermes just let me know and if not just let me know that as well if you want. 

 As I've said probably too many times, I'm not looking at selling the radio for crazy profit like some guys are. I'm just looking to get back what I paid for it and with the crazy way exchange rates are its anywhere between £290/£310 pounds but I think probably £300 or something in that area is what I paid. Awk I honestly don't know. I'm only selling it to help pay for another radio, well the Hermes the Afedri, the Airspy HF+ dual port, and some other radio stuff that I don't need or maybe just don't use or have any use for now, there's even an MFJ 1026 Deluxe Noise Cancelling unit. Think its just really a phasing unit.

 No doubt I'll eventually fund my next radio, hopefully it'll even be before it goes out of production, hi-hi. 



Sorry to trouble you Sigi. 
Very Best Wishes and Very Best Regards to you and your Family Sigi. 73 John. 

Sorry to Simon and the group for this kinda long message and still not with any great sales pitch from me either. 
STAY SAFE AND STAY HEALTHY. 

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 at 09:53, Siegfried Jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:

me too

;-)

dg9bfc sigi

Am 02.06.2022 um 06:46 schrieb mathews ember:
I would be interested in that Hermes lite.
How much you asking for it

--
John Bain


Re: World Map 1.2.9

Simon Brown
 

OK, looks quite easy. Will take a look tomorrow morning.


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Cormac, EI4HQ via groups.io <ei4hq.mail@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 22:11
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] World Map 1.2.9
 
Hi Simon,

Thanks for v1.2.9, in particular for adding bearing & distance display for stations, a very useful feature addition. I use World Map a lot for Navtex DX activities as it provides a neat way to display pretty much all that's needed; the stations, time, terminator and space weather data. I maintain a Navtex station data suite for the Navtex DX community and I've been including World Map 490 and 518 Navtex station files as part of it for a while now.

A feature request if I could be so forward; any chance you might consider adding the real time Dst index to the propagation info. provided; https://wdc.kugi.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dst_realtime/presentmonth/index.html? It's a useful propagation pointer for those of us who DX below 1MHz (NDBs, Navtex, MW & LW broadcasting, that sort of thing). When the Dst spikes upwards, that can be an early warning of a subsequent drop/plunge into -ve Dst figures that often means MW propagation is in trouble. The deeper the dive into -ve territory, the more trouble we're in. On the other hand, all other things being equal a relatively stable Dst hovering around zero is generally a good thing for <1MHz propagation.

Thanks!

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: World Map 1.2.9

Cormac, EI4HQ
 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for v1.2.9, in particular for adding bearing & distance display for stations, a very useful feature addition. I use World Map a lot for Navtex DX activities as it provides a neat way to display pretty much all that's needed; the stations, time, terminator and space weather data. I maintain a Navtex station data suite for the Navtex DX community and I've been including World Map 490 and 518 Navtex station files as part of it for a while now.

A feature request if I could be so forward; any chance you might consider adding the real time Dst index to the propagation info. provided; https://wdc.kugi.kyoto-u.ac.jp/dst_realtime/presentmonth/index.html? It's a useful propagation pointer for those of us who DX below 1MHz (NDBs, Navtex, MW & LW broadcasting, that sort of thing). When the Dst spikes upwards, that can be an early warning of a subsequent drop/plunge into -ve Dst figures that often means MW propagation is in trouble. The deeper the dive into -ve territory, the more trouble we're in. On the other hand, all other things being equal a relatively stable Dst hovering around zero is generally a good thing for <1MHz propagation.

Thanks!


Re: My Computer Drifts!

BobS
 

But I'm not talkng about NTP. My point is still valid. Using a GPS is trivial and it suffers from far less latency compared to NTP.


Re: LimeSDR Mini 2.0 is Now Live!

Siegfried Jackstien
 

if you compare a non moded pluto with a lime or lime mini ... then you are right ... lime has better stability

but near all users either feed in an external clock or replace the clock in the pluto ... and then i think the pluto is better (after modding)

greetz sigi dg9bfc


Am 03.06.2022 um 09:20 schrieb jose maria trueba:

Specs of both are similar in general, but I think Lime is much better because clock stability in Pluto is inadmissible for SSB and CW.

At only 12 bit and considering the very many spurs I think that none of them are good enough for a serious HF nor a VHF transceiver. 
But both of them are very good toys to play with at UHF for TV and satellites because a high dynamic range is not required, once Pluto gets the required replacing of the TCXO which is not too difficult but implies voiding warranties and the risk of ruining it.

By the way.... I never heard of reliability issues from none of them.


Re: PLUTO CRASHES #adalmpluto

Dionisis ‚ÄúDennis‚ÄĚ Drakopoulos - SV1CDN
 

Standard Pluto RevB Simon.


Re: Windows 11 Visibility

Simon Brown
 

Anyway,

Have applied a workaround / force refresh, seems to solve the issue. Expect a V3.2 beta in a few days...


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of Simon Brown via groups.io <simon@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 08:10
To: SDR-Radio <main@sdr-radio.groups.io>
Subject: [SDR-Radio] Windows 11 Visibility
 
Hi All,

Just FWIW the latest W11 update has slightly affected the desktop manager - when using a multi-monitor setup and using the top-right buttons to move to a different monitor Console is not redrawn correctly. I don't see this on W10.

I have no doubt that this will be fixed in a future W11 update.


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: LimeSDR Mini 2.0 is Now Live!

jose maria trueba
 

Specs of both are similar in general, but I think Lime is much better because clock stability in Pluto is inadmissible for SSB and CW.

At only 12 bit and considering the very many spurs I think that none of them are good enough for a serious HF nor a VHF transceiver. 
But both of them are very good toys to play with at UHF for TV and satellites because a high dynamic range is not required, once Pluto gets the required replacing of the TCXO which is not too difficult but implies voiding warranties and the risk of ruining it.

By the way.... I never heard of reliability issues from none of them.


Windows 11 Visibility

Simon Brown
 

Hi All,

Just FWIW the latest W11 update has slightly affected the desktop manager - when using a multi-monitor setup and using the top-right buttons to move to a different monitor Console is not redrawn correctly. I don't see this on W10.

I have no doubt that this will be fixed in a future W11 update.


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SDRC 3.1 won't Start Up, hangs with 'Satellite Screen' displaying

Simon Brown
 

Ah,

FWIW I missed the bit about the satellite screen being visible.


From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> on behalf of N8CVW via groups.io <n8cvw.gbmi@...>
Sent: 03 June 2022 01:34
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SDRC 3.1 won't Start Up, hangs with 'Satellite Screen' displaying
 
Hi Simon


Thanks that did the trick. I deleted the SDR Console folder in the registry.

Back online !

I was worried maybe microsloth had rendered my machine unusable with SDRC, my favorite toy.

I suspect something got touched though, as now SDR# is throwing an error message about .NET ... hmmm

Thanks again !

Paul
N8CVW

--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SDR's For Sale. Maybe Other Equipment, Antenna, ETC.

John
 

Hi, no problem about the Hermes. 
I don't know where you're located but probably not in europe if you think that its too far away from you for shipping. 
 I haven't advertised it anywhere else except Simon's group so far but no doubt I'll mention it elsewhere when I get a chance to do that. 
 Somebody else in this group might still take it anyway 
 so I'll see how that goes. Apologies for not getting back to you on your first message I didn't see it till late last night, I had to fish it from my spam folder. My gmail account is brutal for junking at least 1 or sometimes a lot of messages from active threads that I'm reading. Again apologies about not seeing your first message. Very Best Wishes and Very Best Regards to you and your Family. 73 John. 
 
Stay Safe and Stay Healthy. 

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 06:01, mathews ember <seedkey@...> wrote:
I think I will pass on the Hermes. To far for shipping.
Thanks

--
John Bain

1501 - 1520 of 67962