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Re: 3D waterfall OT
jdow
No, you aren't the only one. As I see it the ribbon
is a triumph of wasted screen space dedicated to cute rather than
function.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
{o.o}
On 20210705 06:50:26, ronwhat wrote:
Jdow, am I the only one who prefers the old menu system rather than the MS Ribbon? In Word or Excel, I knew where to find any menu item I used…it was always there. Then came the Ribbon, with no option to choose it or the old menu bar. Now it is often a real effort to find which ribbon I need to go to in order to access an item that I don’t use regularly. I think the ribbon function should include option for old style menu listing of all commands, gray out any that are not valid at the point in the program.
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Re: 3D waterfall
jdow
I am thinking of other things like the matrix
display, various data displays, and so forth.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
{o.o}
On 20210705 04:50:45, Jos Stevens
wrote:
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Conrad, PA5Y
Well I disagree, SNR improves as you reduce bandwidth, this is just physics. If the metering does not reflect this then the SNR metering is simply wrong. Just use your ears.
Conrad
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of oldjackbob via groups.io
Sent: 05 July 2021 16:43 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Per the info on Simon's page explaining the operation of the S-meter, "[The signal level] is the peak spectrum FFT bin (output value) which is within the current filter."
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Re: 3D waterfall
Conrad, PA5Y
Tha’ what? Nowt up wit Yorkshire accent, it wor designed t keeyup sutheners guessin.
Ok looks worse when you write it down.
Regards
Conrad PA5Y(orkshire)
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of jdow via groups.io
Sent: 05 July 2021 12:34 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall
Yorkshire, Yorky(?), accent gets me. "What did he say?" On 20210705 03:29:37, Simon Brown wrote:
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Re: 3D waterfall
Conrad, PA5Y
There was a recent FW update for the FTDX-10 I understand. I have some TX composite noise measurements from Rob Sherwood and it looks very clean, no sure if it is public domain but I am sure if you asked him he would provide it. It is good.
Regards
Conrad PA5Y
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io
Sent: 05 July 2021 06:16 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall
Ah,
Shame – the FTDX-10 has a different PA module to the FTDX-101, I was hoping it would be clean ☹ .
Simon Brown, G4ELI
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Kriss Kliegle KA1GJU
I just wish operators of FTDX10's could learn how NOT to QRM the band!
- + - + - Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Bob Dengler
At 7/5/2021 12:06 PM, you wrote:
Please define 'average channel power'.See SM6FHZ Ingolf's message a few minutes after mine; for quick reference here is the posting: <<https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048>https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048>. I think he is asking for a little more than I am but my request is basically the same: recording average channel power over time. By "average channel power" I mean the amount of power a calorimetric power meter would record if the channel power were to be fed to one. There is the issue of integration time: I'd say the average power read by such a power meter over that integration time is what we're looking for. Bob NO6B
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
sm6fhz
Hi.
I made a request for this (Continuum mode) in 2014 together with a basic specification of possible functions. It can be found here: https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048 I hope it can make a baseline fore further development of a in dept specification. 73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Bob Dengler
At 7/5/2021 10:43 AM, you wrote:
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 09:26 AM, Bob Dengler wrote:We can choose to split hairs on average vs. sample vs. RMS. I think for purposes of amateur radiometry, any of the above will do. If I'm wrong someone please chime in. The function of an S-meter is not to report the "total power" or "average power" or "integrated power" in the passband, it is to report the highest voltage measured anywhere in the passband, irrespective of any nebulous "total power" contained within the filter. That's what Simon's S-meter does.OK, fair enough. An S-meter, as described above, is useless to me. I would like to see the option of switching the S-meter function in SDRC to an average channel power meter. :) Thanks Bob NO6B
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Simon Brown
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Dengler Sent: 05 July 2021 20:03 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters At 7/5/2021 09:37 AM, you wrote: Bob,Not sure if I understand the question. I'm referring to the channel power or S-meter, which if I understand correctly current indicates peak channel power. It would be nice to have the option to have it read average channel power, then also have the ability to store those readings to a CSV file (2 columns: time & dBm) every x milliseconds. This is exactly what HDSDR offers. Once calibrated with a known noise source or hot/cold load, this allows using an SDR as a radiometer. Also give us one or two significant digits after the dBm decimal point. I'll put the above in the SDRC Requests forum if needed. Thanks! Bob NO6B -- - + - + - Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Bob Dengler
At 7/5/2021 09:37 AM, you wrote:
Bob,Not sure if I understand the question. I'm referring to the channel power or S-meter, which if I understand correctly current indicates peak channel power. It would be nice to have the option to have it read average channel power, then also have the ability to store those readings to a CSV file (2 columns: time & dBm) every x milliseconds. This is exactly what HDSDR offers. Once calibrated with a known noise source or hot/cold load, this allows using an SDR as a radiometer. Also give us one or two significant digits after the dBm decimal point. I'll put the above in the SDRC Requests forum if needed. Thanks! Bob NO6B
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 09:26 AM, Bob Dengler wrote:
I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis).Please define "average power". I've also seen the term "integrated power" bandied about in the Flex forums. There is no established definition for either term. The function of an S-meter is not to report the "total power" or "average power" or "integrated power" in the passband, it is to report the highest voltage measured anywhere in the passband, irrespective of any nebulous "total power" contained within the filter. That's what Simon's S-meter does. Per the definition established in IARU Region 1 Technical Recommendation R.1, "the metering system shall be based on quasi-peak detection". Notice the reference to "peak detection". There is no "average power" mentioned anywhere in the definition. A correctly designed S-meter by definition reports only the peak signal strength detected, nothing more and nothing less. As Simon has stated long ago, if anyone wants anything else reported (such as "total power") he would be glad to look into that, as a separate meter. But his S-meter has always been in strict compliance with the published definition. Mark
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Re: 3D waterfall
Simon Brown
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of ?????? ??????
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:42 To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall
Hi Simon
пн, 5 июл. 2021 г. в 19:26, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@...>:
-- - + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: 3D waterfall
данила фадеев
Hi Simon From wishes for the future - I would like to see wide-band 3D panoramas, several megahertz wide. I think the guys from Aaronia are very good at this and raised the bar. I'll just leave a link to their software if you don't mind. At one time, I was very impressed by their 3D constellation diagrams! This is a huge field for creativity, may the force be with you, I hope we will see amazing things in the Console. пн, 5 июл. 2021 г. в 19:26, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@...>:
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Simon Brown
Bob,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Is this Continuum mode? I would need an exact specification were I to add this. Simon Brown, G4ELI https://www.sdr-radio.com
-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Dengler Sent: 05 July 2021 17:26 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters At 7/5/2021 07:43 AM, you wrote: Per the info on Simon's page explaining the operation of the S-meter, "[Thesignal level] is the peak spectrum FFT bin (output value) which is within the current filter."That page is found here:Â <https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meter>https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meterSimon explains it clearly. There is no correlation of peak FFT bin value to filter bandwidth (or AGC level, or any other consideration), nor should there be. Any modern SDR-based S-meter that changes its reading based on filter bandwidth is doing it wrong.I've said it before: Simon got it right, many others are getting it wrong.Mark I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis). I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been requested, & do so if not. Bob NO6B -- - + - + - Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: 3D waterfall
Matthias Bopp
Hi Simon,
what might be nice is a function to support browsing in stored I/Q-files using the 3D-waterfall function.
Kind regards
Matthias
Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
Im Auftrag von Simon Brown
Bart,
It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .
Simon Brown, G4ELI
From:
main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall
I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile. Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
- + - + - Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters
Bob Dengler
At 7/5/2021 07:43 AM, you wrote:
Per the info on Simon's page explaining the operation of the S-meter, "[The signal level] is the peak spectrum FFT bin (output value) which is within the current filter."That page is found here:Â <https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meter>https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meterSimon explains it clearly. There is no correlation of peak FFT bin value to filter bandwidth (or AGC level, or any other consideration), nor should there be. Any modern SDR-based S-meter that changes its reading based on filter bandwidth is doing it wrong.I've said it before: Simon got it right, many others are getting it wrong.MarkI strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis). I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been requested, & do so if not. Bob NO6B
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Re: 3D waterfall
Simon Brown
Bart,
It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .
Simon Brown, G4ELI
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15 To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall
I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile. Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that. -- - + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.
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Re: 3D waterfall
Bart AA7VA
I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile. Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems. I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added? And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance. Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with. Thanks for the toy Simon!
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Re: 3D waterfall OT
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 05:51 PM, David J Taylor wrote:
A MFC-program? Must be old Office-2007 type of programs.
SDR-Console uses MFC v14 I believe. And the MFC Library supports the
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Re: 3D waterfall OT
On 05/07/2021 16:37, Gisle Vanem wrote:
Select /Minimize the Ribbon/:Thanks, but there is a standard way of minimising the ribbon in some [Windows] programs - the small up and down arrows on the right-hand side. I would be disappointed if SDR Console didn't conform to that convention. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv
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