Date   

Re: 3D waterfall

Conrad, PA5Y
 

There was a recent FW update for the FTDX-10 I understand. I have some TX composite noise measurements from Rob Sherwood and it looks very clean, no sure if it is public domain but I am sure if you asked him he would provide it. It is good.

 

Regards

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simon Brown via groups.io
Sent: 05 July 2021 06:16
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Ah,

 

Shame – the FTDX-10 has a different PA module to the FTDX-101, I was hoping it would be clean .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kriss Kliegle KA1GJU
Sent: 05 July 2021 04:00
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

I just wish operators of FTDX10's could learn how NOT to QRM the band!
I have found ONLY ONE user of the FTDX10 that did NOT have a lousy signal...

Exhibit A:



The IC-7300's always have a nice 3kHz signal.

Just my humble observations.

73 Kriss KA1GJU


--

- + - + -

Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Bob Dengler
 

At 7/5/2021 12:06 PM, you wrote:
Please define 'average channel power'.
See SM6FHZ Ingolf's message a few minutes after mine; for quick reference here is the posting: <<https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048>https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048>. I think he is asking for a little more than I am but my request is basically the same: recording average channel power over time.

By "average channel power" I mean the amount of power a calorimetric power meter would record if the channel power were to be fed to one. There is the issue of integration time: I'd say the average power read by such a power meter over that integration time is what we're looking for.

Bob NO6B


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

sm6fhz
 

Hi.
I made a request for this (Continuum mode) in 2014 together with a basic specification of possible functions.
It can be found here:
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/message/23048
I hope it can make a baseline fore further development of a in dept specification.
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Bob Dengler
 

At 7/5/2021 10:43 AM, you wrote:
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 09:26 AM, Bob Dengler wrote:
I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis).

I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been requested, & do so if not.

Bob NO6B

Please define "average power". I've also seen the term "integrated power" bandied about in the Flex forums. There is no established definition for either term.
We can choose to split hairs on average vs. sample vs. RMS. I think for purposes of amateur radiometry, any of the above will do. If I'm wrong someone please chime in.

The function of an S-meter is not to report the "total power" or "average power" or "integrated power" in the passband, it is to report the highest voltage measured anywhere in the passband, irrespective of any nebulous "total power" contained within the filter. That's what Simon's S-meter does.
OK, fair enough.

An S-meter, as described above, is useless to me. I would like to see the option of switching the S-meter function in SDRC to an average channel power meter.

:)

Thanks

Bob NO6B


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Simon Brown
 

Please define 'average channel power'.

Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Dengler
Sent: 05 July 2021 20:03
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for
transverters

At 7/5/2021 09:37 AM, you wrote:
Bob,

Is this Continuum mode? I would need an exact specification were I to
add this.
Not sure if I understand the question. I'm referring to the channel power
or S-meter, which if I understand correctly current indicates peak channel
power. It would be nice to have the option to have it read average channel
power, then also have the ability to store those readings to a CSV file (2
columns: time & dBm) every x milliseconds. This is exactly what HDSDR
offers. Once calibrated with a known noise source or hot/cold load, this
allows using an SDR as a radiometer. Also give us one or two significant
digits after the dBm decimal point.

I'll put the above in the SDRC Requests forum if needed. Thanks!

Bob NO6B










--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Bob Dengler
 

At 7/5/2021 09:37 AM, you wrote:
Bob,

Is this Continuum mode? I would need an exact specification were I to add
this.
Not sure if I understand the question. I'm referring to the channel power or S-meter, which if I understand correctly current indicates peak channel power. It would be nice to have the option to have it read average channel power, then also have the ability to store those readings to a CSV file (2 columns: time & dBm) every x milliseconds. This is exactly what HDSDR offers. Once calibrated with a known noise source or hot/cold load, this allows using an SDR as a radiometer. Also give us one or two significant digits after the dBm decimal point.

I'll put the above in the SDRC Requests forum if needed. Thanks!

Bob NO6B


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Mark Cayton
 
Edited

On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 09:26 AM, Bob Dengler wrote:
I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis).

I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been requested, & do so if not.

Bob NO6B
Please define "average power". I've also seen the term "integrated power" bandied about in the Flex forums. There is no established definition for either term.

The function of an S-meter is not to report the "total power" or "average power" or "integrated power" in the passband, it is to report the highest voltage measured anywhere in the passband, irrespective of any nebulous "total power" contained within the filter. That's what Simon's S-meter does.

Per the definition established in IARU Region 1 Technical Recommendation R.1, "the metering system shall be based on quasi-peak detection". Notice the reference to "peak detection". There is no "average power" mentioned anywhere in the definition. A correctly designed S-meter by definition reports only the peak signal strength detected, nothing more and nothing less.

As Simon has stated long ago, if anyone wants anything else reported (such as "total power") he would be glad to look into that, as a separate meter. But his S-meter has always been in strict compliance with the published definition.

Mark


Re: 3D waterfall

Simon Brown
 

I agree 😊 .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of ?????? ??????
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:42
To: main@sdr-radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Hi Simon
From wishes for the future - I would like to see wide-band 3D panoramas, several megahertz wide. I think the guys from Aaronia are very good at this and raised the bar. I'll just leave a link to their software if you don't mind. At one time, I was very impressed by their 3D constellation diagrams! This is a huge field for creativity, may the force be with you, I hope we will see amazing things in the Console.

 

Без вирусов. www.avast.ru

 

пн, 5 июл. 2021 г. в 19:26, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@...>:

Hi Simon,

 

what might be nice is a function to support browsing in stored I/Q-files using the 3D-waterfall function.

 

Kind regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Simon Brown
Gesendet: Montag, 5. Juli 2021 18:25
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Bart,

 

It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile.  Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems.  I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added?  And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance.
Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with.
Thanks for the toy Simon!


--

- + - + -

Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

данила фадеев
 

Hi Simon
From wishes for the future - I would like to see wide-band 3D panoramas, several megahertz wide. I think the guys from Aaronia are very good at this and raised the bar. I'll just leave a link to their software if you don't mind. At one time, I was very impressed by their 3D constellation diagrams! This is a huge field for creativity, may the force be with you, I hope we will see amazing things in the Console.

Без вирусов. www.avast.ru

пн, 5 июл. 2021 г. в 19:26, Matthias Bopp <matthias.bopp@...>:

Hi Simon,

 

what might be nice is a function to support browsing in stored I/Q-files using the 3D-waterfall function.

 

Kind regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Simon Brown
Gesendet: Montag, 5. Juli 2021 18:25
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Bart,

 

It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile.  Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems.  I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added?  And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance.
Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with.
Thanks for the toy Simon!


--

- + - + -

Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Simon Brown
 

Bob,

Is this Continuum mode? I would need an exact specification were I to add
this.

Simon Brown, G4ELI
https://www.sdr-radio.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Dengler
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:26
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for
transverters

At 7/5/2021 07:43 AM, you wrote:
Per the info on Simon's page explaining the operation of the S-meter, "[The
signal level] is the peak spectrum FFT bin (output value) which is within
the current filter."That page is found here:Â
<https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meter>https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meterSimon
explains it clearly. There is no correlation of peak FFT bin value to filter
bandwidth (or AGC level, or any other consideration), nor should there be.
Any modern SDR-based S-meter that changes its reading based on filter
bandwidth is doing it wrong.I've said it before: Simon got it right, many
others are getting it wrong.Mark

I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power
measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any
developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full
potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR &
SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but
it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power
readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no
de-emphasis).

I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been
requested, & do so if not.

Bob NO6B










--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

Matthias Bopp
 

Hi Simon,

 

what might be nice is a function to support browsing in stored I/Q-files using the 3D-waterfall function.

 

Kind regards

 

Matthias

 

www.dd1us.de

 

 

Von: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Simon Brown
Gesendet: Montag, 5. Juli 2021 18:25
An: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Bart,

 

It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile.  Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems.  I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added?  And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance.
Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with.
Thanks for the toy Simon!


--

- + - + -

Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: SNR meter, bandwidth and gain adjustment for transverters

Bob Dengler
 

At 7/5/2021 07:43 AM, you wrote:
Per the info on Simon's page explaining the operation of the S-meter, "[The signal level] is the peak spectrum FFT bin (output value) which is within the current filter."That page is found here:Â <https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meter>https://www.sdr-radio.com/s-meterSimon explains it clearly. There is no correlation of peak FFT bin value to filter bandwidth (or AGC level, or any other consideration), nor should there be. Any modern SDR-based S-meter that changes its reading based on filter bandwidth is doing it wrong.I've said it before: Simon got it right, many others are getting it wrong.Mark
I strongly disagree. How else is one supposed to make total channel power measurements for radiometry? SDRs aren't just for communications, & any developer that codes their SDR apps otherwise is hamstringing their full potential. Right now the only apps I know of that can do this are HDSDR & SDRuno. HDSDR is compatible with all my SDRs so that covers my needs, but it would be nice if SDRC could display & record average channel power readings as well as HDSDR is fairly useless for NBFM monitoring (no de-emphasis).

I'll have to go through the forum archives to see if this has been requested, & do so if not.

Bob NO6B


Re: 3D waterfall

Simon Brown
 

Bart,

 

It’s something that has to be written to know whether it’s of any use. Now that I have it I see how I could have an optional 3D interface in the main tuning window – spectrum and waterfall combined. I’m not planning this for 2021 but am keeping it in mind. It would be super-funky 😊 .

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bart AA7VA
Sent: 05 July 2021 17:15
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile.  Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems.  I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added?  And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance.
Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with.
Thanks for the toy Simon!


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

Bart AA7VA
 

I find it interesting, and played with it for awhile.  Wasn't sure where in the band, or band width, was showing, but comparisons with the waterfall soon rectified that.
One thing that might help, the background noise (noise floor) does not match that in the waterfall it seems.  I need to adjust the waterfall to see the noise a bit to help in locating signals on the 3D - maybe some freq numbers, or other locating device could be added?  And/or a slide to adjust the background noise level in the 3D separate from the waterfall one? Using the "Auto" button on the left of main panel makes the 3D have zero background to help see the weak signals, so the suggested slide or a bit more gain in the base 3D setting may be of assistance.
Looks like a nifty addition, not sure if I will use it a lot, but interesting to play with.
Thanks for the toy Simon!


Re: 3D waterfall OT

Gisle Vanem
 

On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 05:51 PM, David J Taylor wrote:

...in some [Windows] programs

A MFC-program? Must be old Office-2007 type of programs.

I would be disappointed if SDR Console didn't conform to that convention.

SDR-Console uses MFC v14 I believe. And the MFC Library supports the
Microsoft Office Fluent User Interface which modern Office programs uses.
Maybe this Fluent UI has some more advanced options for such things.


Re: 3D waterfall OT

David J Taylor
 

On 05/07/2021 16:37, Gisle Vanem wrote:
Select /Minimize the Ribbon/:
Thanks, but there is a standard way of minimising the ribbon in some [Windows] programs - the small up and down arrows on the right-hand side. I would be disappointed if SDR Console didn't conform to that convention.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


10 kHz-150 kHz Band Sweep from EN70 Indiana

Gedas
 

Hi Dave. This sounds like great fun ! I cannot wait to DL all of your recordings and have a look.

Last night I made a scan from 10 kHz to around 150 kHz using the RSPdx and a 75m inv-v at 70'. The URL is below. It is a large file but who cares.....well worth it IMO. fascinating like you said to see what some of the signals we try desperately dig out of the noise are blasting in for you and vice-versa. Here is my recording from last night.

Do let me know if you would like a future recording changed in any particular way or a different antenna or any particular frequencies or at a certain time etc etc. I will be more than happy to do so. It is great to find someone willing to collaborate with. 73 and let me know how I can make things better for you and I will do the same when I review your recordings.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t1kyKbJjLYTnbh-J-H9LC44N84CwtPFn/view?usp=sharing

Gedas, W8BYA EN70JT

Gallery at http://w8bya.com (under repair)
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
On 7/5/2021 11:28 AM, D R via groups.io wrote:

Hi Gedas,

I think it would be easier and much more fun for all if I just put some recordings up, then you can spend as much time as you want going through them and identifying the signals (naval, time, navigation, grid sync, mysterious, etc.) for yourselves.  I've created a Dropbox folder here:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t1pqcqvs93vqjle/AAAMm9XIH8FyAE4Fx9kmA8wOa?dl=0  which has some more SAQ pics, a recording of the second transmission (I also have the first, if you want it), and a midday VLF recording from today, covering 10 - 200kHz.  The signals you can pick up don't change much throughout the day, except that the clusters of carriers at 16, 32, 48kHz from my solar panel microinverters won't be there after sunset, but there will be a lot more storm noise instead.  Thunderstorms over Europe are very active at the moment, but if they quieten down I'll do another nighttime recording for you.  By chance, the LORAN transmitter about 70mi from me is down at the moment, so the spectrum between 90 and 120kHz is open, instead of being a wall of solid white (the signals visible around 110kHz are probably down to low power testing of equipment at the transmitter).  There are no Russian Alpha transmissions on at present, unfortunately!

The recording today was made on an HF+ (with R3 shorted) and a Wellbrook LFL1010 loop turned E-W.

If you want to post a recording or two, I'd be very interested to see what it's like on your side of the Pond!

Regards,
Dave


Re: 3D waterfall OT

Gisle Vanem
 

On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 05:09 PM, David J Taylor wrote:

First thing I do is to turn off the Ribbon (if I can find out how!).

Select Minimize the Ribbon:
[


Re: SAQ 17.2 kHz QRV today

D R
 

Hi Gedas,

I think it would be easier and much more fun for all if I just put some recordings up, then you can spend as much time as you want going through them and identifying the signals (naval, time, navigation, grid sync, mysterious, etc.) for yourselves.  I've created a Dropbox folder here:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t1pqcqvs93vqjle/AAAMm9XIH8FyAE4Fx9kmA8wOa?dl=0  which has some more SAQ pics, a recording of the second transmission (I also have the first, if you want it), and a midday VLF recording from today, covering 10 - 200kHz.  The signals you can pick up don't change much throughout the day, except that the clusters of carriers at 16, 32, 48kHz from my solar panel microinverters won't be there after sunset, but there will be a lot more storm noise instead.  Thunderstorms over Europe are very active at the moment, but if they quieten down I'll do another nighttime recording for you.  By chance, the LORAN transmitter about 70mi from me is down at the moment, so the spectrum between 90 and 120kHz is open, instead of being a wall of solid white (the signals visible around 110kHz are probably down to low power testing of equipment at the transmitter).  There are no Russian Alpha transmissions on at present, unfortunately!

The recording today was made on an HF+ (with R3 shorted) and a Wellbrook LFL1010 loop turned E-W.

If you want to post a recording or two, I'd be very interested to see what it's like on your side of the Pond!

Regards,
Dave


Re: 3D waterfall OT

David J Taylor
 

On 05/07/2021 14:50, ronwhat wrote:
Jdow, am I the only one who prefers the old menu system rather than the MS Ribbon? In Word or Excel, I knew where to find any menu item I used…it was always there
First thing I do is to turn off the Ribbon (if I can find out how!).

73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

4981 - 5000 of 67967