Date   

SAQ 17.2 kHz QRV today

sm6fhz
 

Hi.
Out of topic for this group, but there may be some of you who are interested.
SAQ, 17.2 kHz will transmit today starting at 1130 UTC with tuning and sending message at 1200 UTC
https://alexander.n.se/alexanderson-day-2021/
Enjoy!
73 / Ingolf, SM6FHZ


Re: 3D waterfall

Paul White
 

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 06:08 AM, Simon Brown wrote:
3D may be the last frontier in SDR UIs
The last...

Only because we can't visualise more.
Given some future capability to discriminate az/el of arrival, a total 5D would be informative.

Meanwhile...

1) An automatic "phase-out" of the strongest signal on a tuned channel (semi-transparent), showing what's underneath (solid)

2) Compare current reception with a historical reference (synchronised time of day). Colour/transparency to distinguish the two.

Re 2, (though of little interest to amateurs) I think there's a huge opportunity for new tools to alert us to changes in propagation, channel occupancy, whatever.


Re: Recordings Stuttering

James Niven <jniven@...>
 

Thanks very much jdow, for your very detailed information.

Just a thought, are there adaptors that can plug into a say a usb2 port and convert it to a usb3 port or will there be no difference??

Thanks again

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of jdow
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 9:11 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Ah, nope - if you have all USB2 devices on the bus a USB3 port is not a solution except MAYBE in very marginal cases. If the ELAD is USB 3 (blue tongues) then it may make a major difference. (White tongues are USB 2. Wikipedia has at least one article that delineates what the tongue colors mean.)

If the ELAD itself works on USB2 with all the usual "stuff" on USB 2 then a laptop with some USB3 and some USB2 sockets should work a treat.

{^_^}

On 20210703 18:45:53, James Niven wrote:

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for this information, I actually forgot how to get to the “write-caching” properties to make sure nothing had changed, thanks for that.

I did set this way back when I brought the external hard drive, I just checked the settings and yep, still good.

 

It’s funny, I use the same external hard drive on my overnight recordings from Jaguar Pro and have no issues with the recordings.

It only seems to be with SDR Console when recording FM frequencies and store for later playing that I find the stuttering.

It seems to be what Max and Joanne suggest, the usb 2 port, should be usb 3 for better transmission of data.

 

Thanks

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Hall-Patch
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 6:52 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io; main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Is this the age-old "write-caching" problem, James?  It snags me every year or two.

Bring up Properties for your drive in (right-click on it in Explorer), Hardware tab, highlight the drive, Properites again,  "Change Settings", Policies.

In Removal Policy, choose "Better Performance", and enable Write Caching.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, hi.  (just because it's never obvious to me..)


best wishes,

Nick



At 21:17 2021-07-03, James Niven wrote:



Hi Group,
 
I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.
 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks



James Niven

Austin, Texas



Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada

 


Re: 3D waterfall

Max
 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 09:54 AM, Simon Brown wrote:
Why put a GPU in a PC when the GPU is no better than the CPU’s own graphics? I don’t get it…
Looks like it's an "either/or" as specified at time of purchase. To do with either discrete or shared memory by the look of it:



https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/inspiron-17-7706-2-in-1-laptop_users-guide_en-us.pdf

Max


Re: S Meters

Max
 

Hi Simon

Is it worth adding a small para about use of Visual Gain to calibrate the noise floor with no signal present (antenna disconnected) assuming that's a valid method, and so also therefore a mention of which radios have the Visual Gain feature?

Or perhaps just give Visual Gain it's own section with a link to it from the S-Meter section? It's just that Visual Gain is a very useful feature but it's true function seems to confuse some people quite a bit judging from the Forum posts.

Max


Re: 3D waterfall

Simon Brown
 

Hi,

 

I expect you can disable the NVIDIA GPU from BIOS, then I expect the video recorder to work.

 

Why put a GPU in a PC when the GPU is no better than the CPU’s own graphics? I don’t get it…

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick
Sent: 04 July 2021 09:40
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Bob,

 

The fact is when I tick the corresponding feature from the 'display' menu, CUDA is enabled ! At least it is shown as enabled. See attachment.
I can also use OpenCL, as expected.

 

Maybe Simon can explain why ...
EDIT : Simon already explained ! Sorry !


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

Patrick
 
Edited

Hi Bob,
 
The fact is when I tick the corresponding feature from the 'display' menu, CUDA is enabled ! At least it is shown as enabled. See attachment.
I can also use OpenCL, as expected.

Maybe Simon can explain why ...
EDIT : Simon already explained ! Sorry !


S Meters

Simon Brown
 

Hi All,

 

Following Conrad’s thread I’ve updated Software Defined Radio (sdr-radio.com) so if there are any questions let me know and I’ll add more text or diagrams.

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

Simon Brown
 

Patrick,

 

That’s interesting – they’ve added NVIDIA® GeForce® MX350 even though you have Iris graphics, this is why CUDA options are available.

 

UserBenchmark: Intel Iris Xe vs Nvidia GeForce MX350

 

Shows almost no difference, so why did they do this?

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick
Sent: 03 July 2021 21:04
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Here's a link (to the french Dell page) : https://www.dell.com/fr-fr/shop/ordinateurs-portables-2-en-1/ordinateur-portable-inspiron-17-2-en-1/spd/inspiron-17-7706-2-in-1-laptop


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: 3D waterfall

Simon Brown
 

That’s 100% correct, see my next post!

 

Simon Brown, G4ELI

https://www.sdr-radio.com

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of BobS via groups.io
Sent: 04 July 2021 02:38
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] 3D waterfall

 

Here's a GPU-Z screen shot for an integrated Intel Xe graphics for an Intel i7-1165G7. You can see that CUDA is not supported, but OpenCL is.


--
- + - + -
Please use https://forum.sdr-radio.com:4499/ when posting questions or problems.


Re: Recordings Stuttering

jdow
 

Ah, nope - if you have all USB2 devices on the bus a USB3 port is not a solution except MAYBE in very marginal cases. If the ELAD is USB 3 (blue tongues) then it may make a major difference. (White tongues are USB 2. Wikipedia has at least one article that delineates what the tongue colors mean.)

If the ELAD itself works on USB2 with all the usual "stuff" on USB 2 then a laptop with some USB3 and some USB2 sockets should work a treat.

{^_^}

On 20210703 18:45:53, James Niven wrote:

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for this information, I actually forgot how to get to the “write-caching” properties to make sure nothing had changed, thanks for that.

I did set this way back when I brought the external hard drive, I just checked the settings and yep, still good.

 

It’s funny, I use the same external hard drive on my overnight recordings from Jaguar Pro and have no issues with the recordings.

It only seems to be with SDR Console when recording FM frequencies and store for later playing that I find the stuttering.

It seems to be what Max and Joanne suggest, the usb 2 port, should be usb 3 for better transmission of data.

 

Thanks

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Hall-Patch
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 6:52 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io; main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Is this the age-old "write-caching" problem, James?  It snags me every year or two.

Bring up Properties for your drive in (right-click on it in Explorer), Hardware tab, highlight the drive, Properites again,  "Change Settings", Policies.

In Removal Policy, choose "Better Performance", and enable Write Caching.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, hi.  (just because it's never obvious to me..)


best wishes,

Nick



At 21:17 2021-07-03, James Niven wrote:


Hi Group,
 
I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.
 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks



James Niven

Austin, Texas


Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada



Re: Recordings Stuttering

jdow
 

Unfortunately I do not have a pointer to it. The short version with regards to USB 3 with attached USB 2 devices (or USB 2 with attached USB 1 or 1.1 devices) involves time rather than data rate issues.

Every time a lower rated USB device tries to transfer data on a higher rated hub (port) the whole bus slows down to the lower rate for the duration of the transfer. This consumes time on the bus. So a 1.1 device may consume maybe 40 times as much of the nominal bandwidth on the port. Furthermore for perceived response on your screen mice send very small messages with fairly large overhead with a payload value of 1 mouse step. It's a bit difficult to get a mouse to actually send a payload of say 42 mouse steps. So what might be a (swag alert) 3 byte transfer turns into a (swag) 15 or 20 byte handshake plus transfer all at 10 MB/S or so. That's 50 to 90 megabytes/second carved away from the nominal 400 megabytes/second on the bus. So slow devices eat your hub's capability FAST. That is why AirSpys have trouble at 10 Msps on a USB2 bus that should "easily" handle the bit packed transfer rate of an AirSpy. The full USB2 bus is seldom really there. And if  you hook up to a USB 3 hub you are still stuck with the AirSpy eating 3/4 of the bus bandwidth give or take a little. Anything else on that bus, say an external drive or an internal DVD drive can cause extreme stuttering or outright failure.

(All numbers are Scientific Wild Assed Guesses rather than correct to more than 1 decimal place. The concept is what is of concern in the numbers above. If my memory serves the numbers are "close" if not exact.)

{^_^}

On 20210703 16:08:57, James Niven wrote:

Thanks Max, I hope Joanne can point me to her excellent post, would love to read this and learn more.

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:45 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 10:17 PM, James Niven wrote:

I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.

Hi James. I guess one would need to know what is exact external drive make/model and how is it connected to the PC? Many PCs still have a mix of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports. It's very easy to plug a USB 3.0 drive into a USB 2.0 port. I don't know if it's a universal standard, but often the USB 2.0 ports are black inside (well, the plastic "tongue" inside the socket anyway) and the USB 3.0 ports are marked blue. Needless to say USB 3.0 drive in USB 2.0 port is choked right from the start.

There is generally nothing inherently slow about external drives, and I have USB 3.0 drives that can transfer files at 100 Mb/s (single file performance, not multiple). As Joanne says, it's just hardware bottlenecks that are the problem, i.e. drive physical write/read speed, and connection speed.

Joanne wrote an excellent post about USB ports a few months back, but not sure where it is now....... Joanne? But essentially, to repeat what she already says, don't mix USB 2.0 and 3.0 devices on the same bus at the same time. The USB 2.0 will drag down the whole transfer rate.

Max



Re: Recordings Stuttering

jdow
 

On USB2 I have found that it is rare to be able to write faster than 10 MB/S. On top of that you are trying to read another 20 or more MB/S reading from your source. It isn't going to work. It will be close; but, it will not win the cigar.

{^_^}

On 20210703 16:06:52, James Niven wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply jdow, it appears I have usb2 ports, so after reading what Max and yourself mention, this may well be my issue.

So, I guess for now, I have to save to my c drive.

Thanks again!!

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of jdow
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 4:31 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Drive not fast enough is a real possibility for an external drive, especially if it is USB2. Even if it is on the same USB3 bus as the elad S2 there still can be problems if either device is USB2 because the bus slows down to operate with USB2 transfers. If you can record OK to the internal drive then it almost certainly is the external drive causing problems for one reason or another.

{o.o}

On 20210703 14:17:47, James Niven wrote:

Hi Group,

 

I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.

 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks

 

James Niven

Austin, Texas

 

 



Re: Recordings Stuttering

James Niven <jniven@...>
 

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for this information, I actually forgot how to get to the “write-caching” properties to make sure nothing had changed, thanks for that.

I did set this way back when I brought the external hard drive, I just checked the settings and yep, still good.

 

It’s funny, I use the same external hard drive on my overnight recordings from Jaguar Pro and have no issues with the recordings.

It only seems to be with SDR Console when recording FM frequencies and store for later playing that I find the stuttering.

It seems to be what Max and Joanne suggest, the usb 2 port, should be usb 3 for better transmission of data.

 

Thanks

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Hall-Patch
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 6:52 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io; main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Is this the age-old "write-caching" problem, James?  It snags me every year or two.

Bring up Properties for your drive in (right-click on it in Explorer), Hardware tab, highlight the drive, Properites again,  "Change Settings", Policies.

In Removal Policy, choose "Better Performance", and enable Write Caching.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, hi.  (just because it's never obvious to me..)


best wishes,

Nick



At 21:17 2021-07-03, James Niven wrote:


Hi Group,
 
I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.
 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks



James Niven

Austin, Texas


Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada


Re: 3D waterfall

BobS
 

Here's a GPU-Z screen shot for an integrated Intel Xe graphics for an Intel i7-1165G7. You can see that CUDA is not supported, but OpenCL is.

gpu.png


Re: 3D waterfall

BobS
 

CUDA is proprietary to nVidia. CUDA does not exist on Intel Xe graphics. You can use OpenCL.

Bob, W4RLS


Re: Recordings Stuttering

Nick Hall-Patch
 

Is this the age-old "write-caching" problem, James?  It snags me every year or two.

Bring up Properties for your drive in (right-click on it in Explorer), Hardware tab, highlight the drive, Properites again,  "Change Settings", Policies.

In Removal Policy, choose "Better Performance", and enable Write Caching.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, hi.  (just because it's never obvious to me..)


best wishes,

Nick



At 21:17 2021-07-03, James Niven wrote:

Hi Group,
 
I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.
 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks



James Niven

Austin, Texas

Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada


Re: Recordings Stuttering

James Niven <jniven@...>
 

Thanks Max, I hope Joanne can point me to her excellent post, would love to read this and learn more.

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Max
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:45 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 10:17 PM, James Niven wrote:

I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.

Hi James. I guess one would need to know what is exact external drive make/model and how is it connected to the PC? Many PCs still have a mix of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports. It's very easy to plug a USB 3.0 drive into a USB 2.0 port. I don't know if it's a universal standard, but often the USB 2.0 ports are black inside (well, the plastic "tongue" inside the socket anyway) and the USB 3.0 ports are marked blue. Needless to say USB 3.0 drive in USB 2.0 port is choked right from the start.

There is generally nothing inherently slow about external drives, and I have USB 3.0 drives that can transfer files at 100 Mb/s (single file performance, not multiple). As Joanne says, it's just hardware bottlenecks that are the problem, i.e. drive physical write/read speed, and connection speed.

Joanne wrote an excellent post about USB ports a few months back, but not sure where it is now....... Joanne? But essentially, to repeat what she already says, don't mix USB 2.0 and 3.0 devices on the same bus at the same time. The USB 2.0 will drag down the whole transfer rate.

Max


Re: Recordings Stuttering

James Niven <jniven@...>
 

Thanks for the quick reply jdow, it appears I have usb2 ports, so after reading what Max and yourself mention, this may well be my issue.

So, I guess for now, I have to save to my c drive.

Thanks again!!

 

From: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io <main@SDR-Radio.groups.io> On Behalf Of jdow
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 4:31 PM
To: main@SDR-Radio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SDR-Radio] Recordings Stuttering

 

Drive not fast enough is a real possibility for an external drive, especially if it is USB2. Even if it is on the same USB3 bus as the elad S2 there still can be problems if either device is USB2 because the bus slows down to operate with USB2 transfers. If you can record OK to the internal drive then it almost certainly is the external drive causing problems for one reason or another.

{o.o}

On 20210703 14:17:47, James Niven wrote:

Hi Group,

 

I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.

 

So, it appears to be an external drive issue maybe or a setting. I have SDR console version 3.0.28, I am recording the FM band at 6.144mhz bandwidth with my elad s2.

Any tips on what I should look for? I have had this before, but I was never able to fix the issue.

 

Thanks

 

James Niven

Austin, Texas

 

 


Re: Recordings Stuttering

Max
 

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 10:17 PM, James Niven wrote:

I am trying to work out why my recordings are stuttering on playback when accessing them from an external hard drive.

There seems to be no issue from what I can see when playing them back when I record to c: drive.

Hi James. I guess one would need to know what is exact external drive make/model and how is it connected to the PC? Many PCs still have a mix of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports. It's very easy to plug a USB 3.0 drive into a USB 2.0 port. I don't know if it's a universal standard, but often the USB 2.0 ports are black inside (well, the plastic "tongue" inside the socket anyway) and the USB 3.0 ports are marked blue. Needless to say USB 3.0 drive in USB 2.0 port is choked right from the start.

There is generally nothing inherently slow about external drives, and I have USB 3.0 drives that can transfer files at 100 Mb/s (single file performance, not multiple). As Joanne says, it's just hardware bottlenecks that are the problem, i.e. drive physical write/read speed, and connection speed.

Joanne wrote an excellent post about USB ports a few months back, but not sure where it is now....... Joanne? But essentially, to repeat what she already says, don't mix USB 2.0 and 3.0 devices on the same bus at the same time. The USB 2.0 will drag down the whole transfer rate.

Max

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